What happens when wrong Removal is chosen

[Bill]

Hello all,
Want to share this with everyone. I was attempting to remove a Falcon 610 Freewheel from the wheel today. I inserted a Park Tool FR-1 freewheel removal tool. I used Alex's procedure in http://bikeride.com/replace-freewheel/ . First after applying loads of torque with an adjustable 12" wrench (aka crescent wrench) nothing gave. So moving on to using the Vise I have the FR-1 was inserted and clamped tight. I put the wheel into it and then gave all the strength I had and POW! I thought it broke the freewheel loose. WRONG! After lifting the wheel I saw the FR-1 was stripped!! Something strange? Instinct told me to go research it. After looking up all the FR Park Tools I found I was using the wrong tool for the job. I should have used the FR-7, reason is that Falcon Type Freewheels have the same number of splines only they are slightly different spaced. So from this mistake and "assumption" I not only had to get the FR-7, also had to get another FR-1. Moral of the this story make sure you have the right tool for the right part!! Here are a couple of picture of the ruined FR-1......

[Alex Ramon]

Thanks for the important info Bill. That reminds me, I need to buy all the different removers and some freewheels for a tutorial explaining the differences

[Bill]

Hehe, it was pretty funny after I read that I had the wrong one . Just couldn't believe how much torque I put on it and it didn't budge. Falcon Freewheels were commonly used on the Huffy 15 speeds, 90's vintage I think. I'll get some pictures of the bike and wheel for future reference.

P.S. You are welcome

[Surly LHT]

Bill I feel for you. I have done that before too use the wrong tool. Now days I do a lot of research before I buy or do the work my self. And even then I still goof at times lol.

[Joe_W]

Yeah, freewheel removal: a source of never ending joy... I destroyed my last freewheel last year (stripped the two splines... old Campa stuff, grrr) and relaced the wheel with a new freehub. End of story for me, no more freewheels.

[KC-Steve]

That's GOOD advice Bill. I had a situation yesterday while trying to remove an old (1978) Raleigh freewheel with an FR-2. The bike has been sitting in a garage for 25 years or so. Still had an original Raleigh tire on the rear. That's great for having little wear and tear, but trying to break the freewheel loose was a bear. I ended up using a vise to hold the FR-2 solidly while using the leverage of the full 27" of the wheel to break the hold. Yes, I even tried a 1/2"-drive automotive breaker bar, but it was the vise set up that worked. Sheeesh, no fun thinking I might have to replace everything just to get it lubed.

Steve

[Bill]

I should put what I am about to say in a different thread, but also wanted to mention that when we use the vise I am wandering if it affects the spoke structure, truing, and/or malleable parts of the wheel? Granted they are designed to hold tremendous amount of weight but still that is a lot of force.

[Joe_W]

Hm, sure, there is some force acting on the spokes when you clamp the removal tool in the vise and use the rim as a lever. However, I don't think this is that bad... We'd have to see how strong you can pull and calculate the moment and from that the force on the spoke and compare that to the elastic and inelastic module (I think that is the correct English name) of steel to be sure, though.

[Bill]

(03-18-2010, 10:21 AM)Joe_W Wrote:  Hm, sure, there is some force acting on the spokes when you clamp the removal tool in the vise and use the rim as a lever. However, I don't think this is that bad... We'd have to see how strong you can pull and calculate the moment and from that the force on the spoke and compare that to the elastic and inelastic module (I think that is the correct English name) of steel to be sure, though.

Ok thanks Joe, Guess I am worried about the spokes being stretched out too much making them ineffective. Also did not know if the truing would be offset as well. As far as my strength you see what I did to the tool above. But measurement and math would have a big part in getting the answer.

[Joe_W]

I'd say compared what we do to spokes when riding off road or when they are manufactured this is not bad. The stress is applied in the correct direction, I wouldn't worry.

[KC-Steve]

I agree Joe. After checking the rim, where the spokes meet the rim, I haven't seen any stress marks on the rim after using the vise. I think that would be the biggest weakness. But I guess the real test will be when I have it back together and test ride the bike. It will be a couple of weeks before I am done with this project. Spokes are pretty strong in the aggregate. If I recall correctly, I used to own an MGB (auto) that used spokes as well.

Steve

[cyclerUK]

I would expect the spokes/rim to be stressed to the same force whether put in a vice or not.
If using a spanner/wrench then you still have to hold the wheel.
Maybe there could be a worse force with the wrench as chances are your pressing down onto a few spokes if the wheel is on the floor. ??
In the end you have no choice about the force required unless your use some form of destructive removal procedure.

[Joe_W]

Good assumption about the additional force to push the wheel down... and: yeah, the torque you need will be the same.

[Jordan300]

Send that photo top PARK, they will send you a new tool