Steel Gravel Bikes with 1/1 paint jobs

[meamoantonio]

Hey Everyone

I'd like to get your thoughts on a possible business venture,

I have access to a local frame builder who used to build a lot of the bikes that were used in the pro peloton back in the day.
if you're familiar with the name Nonet Dioquino, he will be building the frames for this project
the oomph for this project would be having the frames painted by artists also from this country and each one will be a one of unit

basically each bike frame would be a blank canvas and what ever the design would be is up to the artist. it's kinda like what Wilier did with their Filante line but little bit more niche in terms of production.

These frames would also be sold for less than $1,000 USD

I'll be coming up with prototypes soon but I'd like to get your thoughts with just the elevator pitch

Thank You Bike Ride Forum

[JJD]

[b][/b]

(12-20-2023, 11:38 AM)meamoantonio Wrote:  Hey Everyone

I'd like to get your thoughts on a possible business venture,

I have access to a local frame builder who used to build a lot of the bikes that were used in the pro peloton back in the day.
if you're familiar with the name Nonet Dioquino, he will be building the frames for this project
the oomph for this project would be having the frames painted by artists also from this country and each one will be a one of unit

basically each bike frame would be a blank canvas and what ever the design would be is up to the artist. it's kinda like what Wilier did with their Filante line but little bit more niche in terms of production.

These frames would also be sold for less than $1,000 USD

I'll be coming up with prototypes soon but I'd like to get your thoughts with just the elevator pitch

Thank You Bike Ride Forum

Elevator pitch?? Not sure what you mean by this, but I’d be interested in a steel frame gravel bike that I could set up as a touring bike, complete with racks and extra braze ons.

[ichitan]

(12-29-2023, 08:24 PM)JJD Wrote:  I’d be interested in a steel frame gravel bike that I could set up as a touring bike, complete with racks and extra braze ons.

Many people want aluminum or carbon fiber bikes.

The type of bikes where a lot of people do want steel, is touring bikes. If well made steel frames can be very strong. If they break, it is normally easy to find someone who can weld steel.

Many people also want Pinion gearboxes on their touring bikes.

A good touring bike is not just a regular bike with a few extras. Many parts of the design are different.

They want very strong wheels. I have met a bike tourer who had replaced spokes, hubs, and complete wheels, at various times. I met another bike tourer who had been touring for 3 years, through over 30 countries, and had not had anything break on the wheels.

Having a larger than normal tire clearance is also desirable. Bike tourers sometimes ride along muddy tracks. Mud can get stuck the space between the tire and frame. Having a larger clearance, reduces that.

I suggest, look at the designs of the best touring bikes. Get as many good ideas from them as you can.

Even look into panniers. See if you can come up with really good racks.

If you can come up with a design that is as good as the best, at a reasonable price, you may do well.

You can share your ideas, and get feedback from others.

Even after making them, get feedback from those riding them, and improve the design at times.

[ichitan]

If you design a touring bike, aim for it to last 100,000 km without anything breaking.

Of course, some things will wear out, for example tires.

If you do design a touring bike, it could also be promoted as a bike for heavy riders.

Then with a few design changes, you could also make cargo bikes.

[Tracy A Snider]

(12-20-2023, 11:38 AM)meamoantonio Wrote:  Hey Everyone

I'd like to get your thoughts on a possible business venture,

I have access to a local frame builder who used to build a lot of the bikes that were used in the pro peloton back in the day.
if you're familiar with the name Nonet Dioquino, he will be building the frames for this project
the oomph for this project would be having the frames painted by artists also from this country and each one will be a one of unit

basically each bike frame would be a blank canvas and what ever the design would be is up to the artist. it's kinda like what Wilier did with their Filante line but little bit more niche in terms of production.

These frames would also be sold for less than $1,000 USD

I'll be coming up with prototypes soon but I'd like to get your thoughts with just the elevator pitch

Thank You Bike Ride Forum

I would be very interested in a build like that. What about adding options like eyelets or braze-ons for added universal use & customizing ?
Tracy
tracy@sniderinsurance.com

[GirishH]

Hello ichitan,

In my opinion You can tour in any bike. I bikepacked and still bikepacking in an off the shelf fatbike. I didn't change anything. The South American i met rodé regular bikes with DIY racks, panniers. Atleast 2 carried dogs as they cycled the entire continent..

I was lucky to get some clamp-on bottle cages for th front fork. And, a front Fender that was zip-tied. Otherwise, everything else was/is stock.

My friend and i biked through some 1000+ miles of mountain trail in Ecuador. I had my fatbike with a bikepacking setup while he's in his touring setup with 2.8-3.2 inche tires. By the way, he had DIY panniers using cat litter boxes

Nothing has broken or malfunctioned on my bike inspite of the rough terrains it had seen and the 4 contients it has touched.

My advice is, start with whatever you have. You Will learn and adopte along the way..

(12-29-2023, 09:24 PM)ichitan Wrote:  

(12-29-2023, 08:24 PM)JJD Wrote:  I’d be interested in a steel frame gravel bike that I could set up as a touring bike, complete with racks and extra braze ons.

Many people want aluminum or carbon fiber bikes.

The type of bikes where a lot of people do want steel, is touring bikes. If well made steel frames can be very strong. If they break, it is normally easy to find someone who can weld steel.

Many people also want Pinion gearboxes on their touring bikes.

A good touring bike is not just a regular bike with a few extras. Many parts of the design are different.

They want very strong wheels. I have met a bike tourer who had replaced spokes, hubs, and complete wheels, at various times. I met another bike tourer who had been touring for 3 years, through over 30 countries, and had not had anything break on the wheels.

Having a larger than normal tire clearance is also desirable. Bike tourers sometimes ride along muddy tracks. Mud can get stuck the space between the tire and frame. Having a larger clearance, reduces that.

I suggest, look at the designs of the best touring bikes. Get as many good ideas from them as you can.

Even look into panniers. See if you can come up with really good racks.

If you can come up with a design that is as good as the best, at a reasonable price, you may do well.

You can share your ideas, and get feedback from others.

Even after making them, get feedback from those riding them, and improve the design at times.

[ichitan]

(12-30-2023, 03:47 PM)GirishH Wrote:  In my opinion You can tour in any bike.

Nothing has broken or malfunctioned on my bike inspite of the rough terrains it had seen and the 4 contients it has touched.

I have fat bikes and mountain bikes. I am heavier than most riders. With fat bikes, spokes rarely break. The fat tire spreads out the forces, the rim is rigid, and the spokes are at a greater bracing angle.

https://forums.bikeride.com/thread-8730.html

I did have a problem with the rear axle bending and breaking, and the bearings in the back wheel failing. You may have a good axle and bearings in your wheel.

https://forums.bikeride.com/thread-8365.html

I am thousands of kilometers from you. But if we were to go for a ride together, with me riding my mountain bike, and you riding your fat bike, I would finish up kilometers ahead of you. If you were to ride my mountain bike, and I rode your fat bike, you would finish up kilometers ahead of me. When traveling long distances, the mountain bike finishes a long way ahead.

With my mountain bike, the back wheel was not strong enough, so I made a strong wheel to replace it.

https://forums.bikeride.com/thread-8529.html

- - - - - - - - - - - -

I just happen to be in a place where a lot of bike tourers pass through. I meet some of them. I see their bikes, and listen to their stories. I show some around the interesting places in this area. With one group of bike tourers, I showed them where they could buy everything they wanted to buy, and assisting them with repairing their bikes.

There are some who have too many things break on their bikes. As I mentioned one man who had replaced spokes, hubs and entire wheels on his bike.

Some bike tourers travel in very remote places. If something fails in these places, it creates massive difficulty. Bike tourers want strong bikes, so nothing will fail when traveling long distances.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

The OP is thinking about manufacturing bikes. If he makes an ordinary bike that have nothing more to offer than many other bikes on the market, why would people buy his bikes? If he makes bikes which stand out as particularly good, a lot of people will probably buy them, and his business should be successful.

[JJD]

Not sure I’d opt for a pinion gear system, but that may mostly because I have no experience repairing them. I did a bike tour of over 1000 miles this past summer with full bike packing gear as we were in some remote places. With this as my guide, I’d favor steel or ti. Steel is more forgiving but ti is lighter. And weight does matter. I rode/ride a Trek 520 which is on the heavier side at 34 lbs without panniers or water bottles. Fully loaded it weighed >90lbs. I weighed in at about 165. That puts the total weight on the bike at around 255 lb (max recommended weight is 275). Despite trying to meticulously balance the weight distribution, I found the bike a bit ‘flexy’ when standing, as well as a transient wobble around 20mph. But no mechanical breakdown issues whatsoever.

I’d like a lighter but strong frame as a base, and I think one can get a steel frame set in under 30lbs with a quality grupo. If a frame came with a custom paint job and could built up to under 30 lbs AND under $1000 for the frame, I’d be interested. But I’d probably have to see some reviews on the frame.

[ichitan]

(12-30-2023, 07:53 PM)JJD Wrote:  Not sure I’d opt for a pinion gear system, but that may mostly because I have no experience repairing them.

Pinion gearboxes don't normally need repairs, they are built really strong, that is why people like them. They just need oil changes. When people tour in remote places, they want to be confident the bike wont break.

Pinion gearboxes may make the bike more expensive, depending on what other drivetrain you compare it to. I have been told, they are cheaper if you buy them in Germany. They can ship anywhere in the world.

My bike uses a chain and freewheel, which need to be replaced from time to time, but the bike cost less to begin with. I don't do long distance bike touring, and am normally not too far from where I can buy replacement parts.

(12-30-2023, 07:53 PM)JJD Wrote:  Despite trying to meticulously balance the weight distribution, I found the bike a bit ‘flexy’ when standing, as well as a transient wobble around 20mph.

My bike tends to wobble when carrying a lot of weight on the rear carrier rack.

You could try getting the weight on the back as low as possible. I know it may be difficult when carrying a lot.

You may have already tried this. Just an idea if you haven't.

[ichitan]

Another thing that would reduce wobble, would be to have longer chainstays, making the back wheel further back. The bike would then become a bit like a cargo bike.

One of the advantages of GirishH's bike, is that it is a fat bike, so the pedals are further out, and he can carry more in the frame, which is a good location for carrying weight.

[GirishH]

Infact, I carried a 3-litres camelback, a laptop with Charger along with other stuff in the frame bag during my South américa trip. So, frame can definitely carry more things..

The fatbike is like an all terrain vehicle with inbuilt suspensión which i refused to use. It was great on mud and unpaved trails. But it also handled the ancient, cobble-stoned roads that northern Ecuador's mountain tienes/villages had.

(12-31-2023, 04:26 AM)ichitan Wrote:  Another thing that would reduce wobble, would be to have longer chainstays, making the back wheel further back. The bike would then become a bit like a cargo bike.

One of the advantages of GirishH's bike, is that it is a fat bike, so the pedals are further out, and he can carry more in the frame, which is a good location for carrying weight.

[meamoantonio]

(12-30-2023, 09:04 AM)Tracy A Snider Wrote:  

(12-20-2023, 11:38 AM)meamoantonio Wrote:  Hey Everyone

I'd like to get your thoughts on a possible business venture,

I have access to a local frame builder who used to build a lot of the bikes that were used in the pro peloton back in the day.
if you're familiar with the name Nonet Dioquino, he will be building the frames for this project
the oomph for this project would be having the frames painted by artists also from this country and each one will be a one of unit

basically each bike frame would be a blank canvas and what ever the design would be is up to the artist. it's kinda like what Wilier did with their Filante line but little bit more niche in terms of production.

These frames would also be sold for less than $1,000 USD

I'll be coming up with prototypes soon but I'd like to get your thoughts with just the elevator pitch

Thank You Bike Ride Forum

I would be very interested in a build like that. What about adding options like eyelets or braze-ons for added universal use & customizing ?
Tracy
tracy@sniderinsurance.com

Yeah, will definitely add a lot of these for Touring options, the more mounts the better. will keep you posted when I have prototypes on hand