Jack Taylor Tandem

[nfmisso]

During a party last night, I had to unwrap it to show friends, got the serial number (7640) off the frame then.

It has Campy drop outs. The 531 decals are not in good shape.

The frame is on the larger side: 25½" center to top of the seat tube; both front and rear. Front seat tube to steerer is 22½". My preferred size is 58cm (23"), and I have several inches of seat tube showing. I like 31" crank center to top of my saddle, so, it will be okay, just have to be very careful at stops . But it will never work for Diane, unless she wear 4" platform shoes (not going to happen). She like 25" crank center to top of her saddle.

A the rate of my forth coming business trips, and the other projects that I have priority (T50 headset today, SR needs chain and cassette, 310 needs finishing); I will not be starting on the JT until next year.

I am debating a number of options:

* just clean up the frame, and build; then probably sell it. It should have drop bars, recently go a set of 9 speed Sunrace brifters.

* have the frame hieght reduced (need someone with fillet brazing skills - one of my co-workers built his own fillet brazed frame) and then have it powder coated. I can get reproduction decals, but the box lining would be a challenge. If I go by what I have in it, rather than it's potential value, this makes a lot of sense. The paint is peeling in several areas.

* hold on to it, wipe it down good and sell it as is. No matter what, I will not be doing anything with it until the 310 is completed, and I catch up on the maintenance of my other bikes.

Any sort of build I do, would be like my other builds: modern low to mid end components, I go for function rather than status:
* Wheelmaster tandem hubs
* linear pull brakes
* travel agents
* Sun CR18 rims
* Wheelsmith spokes
* Kenda tires
* SRAM cassette
* Sunrace/microSHIFT brifters
* Shimano derailleur (the X9 is going to go on the T50, as originally planned).

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(08-26-2012, 10:58 AM)painkiller Wrote:  notice the brakes on the ebay tandem Nigel, thats the who invented the self energizing Canti,s. suntour bought the rights and deemed them to powerful for the front of mtbs. then only produced them for the rear. You can still get them like the ones on the ebay bike. I know of maybe 10 sets or less as of this post. they are cool and hard hitters, the bike is worthy of them and you should think about grabbing a set. I have never endoed my mtb Tandem, they just do not do that. I have the Suntour version on the rear of my Gary fisher Gemini and they are awesome

Thanx, not my style

[GeorgeET]

Hey PK, I got brakes just like that on my 91 Schwinn MB, made by Shimano.
Glad to know they are a hot item. Easy to adjust and reliable.

AS far as the tandem price," happy dreams can come through if you believe in magic" and all that.

[Painkiller]

I already knew they were not your style Nigel. Rule number one For a bicycle preservationist such as myself is, its not about "My Style" its about the bikes style. That is why I choose to do bikes that are my "Style", and try my best to keep them at the very least of Era,as good as or better components that were available around the time the bike was made. I still love and respect you bro, despite the possible demise of a JT Tandem.
Bikes do have souls and when finished should have a smile from
Gear to Gear!

[GeorgeET]

I 'm kind of 50/60 on restoring old bikes . What works well I keep what does not I change. Such as switching to a sealed Bottom Bracket, although parts were NLA anyway.

I spend too much time running down cones and nuts , its easier just to change the whole thing.

And Nigel is a big boy, two of me , so he needs killer brakes.

[Painkiller]

I totally agree, could you imagine what it would cost to do a true to era resto on that tandem. Nigel is the best at finding the stuff he needs to make a good user and thats what its about, being able to use it.
I am doing an 1993 Rockhopper comp right now and can say as long as I own it it will never see the hard woods again. Kind of a shame really, but I will still have fun on the street with it. Its just that anytime
you use vintage Nos Parts or even have cherry parts to begin with you had better keep them as nice as possible because most of the time if you do find them you can not pay the price they ask. its a shame but its always about the money nowadays and not compassion for cycling.
Thats what I love most about this site, most of us have a genuine compassion for cycling and like to help and have fun with each other and that is the way it should be.

[xerxes]

I changed the original cantilever brakes on my older MTBs for V-brakes, and V-brakes are way better, they're an absolute doddle to set up compared to all that faffing about with link wires with cantilever brakes and the stopping power is just awesome. I reckon the power of my V-brakes is easily a match for the hydraulic disc brakes on my newer bike.

Also, it's all very well being "period correct", but if you want a rider I'd have no hesitation swapping out stuff for better, newer components.

It's worth noting that even on higher end bikes, manufacturers often use cheap, low quality components in less noticeable areas. For example I bought my Marin Pine Mountain new in 1990. The Pine Mountain was their second from top model, the Team. The wheels, hubs, shifters, mechs, chainset, brakes etc., the bits you really notice when you look at the spec, were all good quality parts. The seatpost, handlebars, stem, bottom bracket, headset and saddle, the bits you don't pay so much attention to, were all rather ordinary. The headset and bottom bracket in particular were garbage, quickly wore out and were promptly replaced with something better. The original saddle was also a piece of junk and was replaced within a few days of buying the bike, the handlebars, stem and seatpost were also changed within the first year of having the bike. So from new my bike very quickly became non original as I changed parts to make it suit me better.

[nfmisso]

Well; it is not getting new decals - they cost as much as I paid for the frame (including the fork, headset and eccentric for the front BB).

I have to finish the 310, and tweak the GT and do maintainence on the SR before I tackle the JT. I also want to build up a new rear wheel for the T50 and convert it to a 9 speed (from 7 speed) to get some lower and some taller gears. I am also intending to sell the World Tourist, and the Next. In addition, I have at least two trips to China this year. Thus there will be no work on the JT until sometime next year.

I am open to interesting trades for the JT - I'd especially be interest in tandem frame (or more) the right size for us 22"-23" range for the captain, 17"-20" range for the stoker; cro-mo or Reynolds 531 or similar; more sporty than our T50 - but another T50/100/200 could be built up more sporty than our T50 is right now. It is a cruiser/truck type bike.

[nfmisso]

I got some advice on attempting modify the frame height - DON'T - with explanations that made sense. So that option off the table.

Selling or trading looks the best course.

[nfmisso]

Sold to two young tall kids from Marin County.

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One of them has an early '60's JT

As you can see in the above picture, the paint that the Taylors used was not very good. Where it is pealing around the seat tubes, you can see the bronze used for fillet brazing the bike frame.

Check out his crazy expensive one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111319022814?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

My offering is at a LOT lower price, and unfortunately is not in as good a condition. It is serial number 7640, which according to this database: http://www.blackbirdsf.org/taylor/serials_1980.html was built in 1980 with silver paint. The paint appears to be original, and is coming off in many places. The Reynolds 531 decals are almost completely gone. The frame is fillet brazed double butted Reynolds 531 tubing. This will build up into a bicycle for a rather tall team, both the front (captain) and rear (stoker) positions are 25” center to top of the seat tubes. The front compartment top tube is 22½” center to the center and the stoker compartment is 23½” center to center. These are pretty compact compartments by modern standards. Note that the Taylor brothers used inches for measurement, not the metric system. The drop outs are Campagnolo (Campy). The brake posts are position for ISO622 (700c) wheels. The headset and front eccentric are included.

Some Jack Taylor links:
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/designs/hsjacktaylor.html
http://tubulocity.com/?p=5660
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/taylor/

This frame is excellent project, but not for the faint of heart. Included are two sets (tandem needs two sets) of Jack Taylor decals from World Cycle Decals in Lancashire, UK, unfortunately they do not include the Reynolds 531 decals. The lining that Jack Taylor (see about 5 minutes into the video on the tubulocity site) did will not be easy to duplicate, but the tools are available: http://www.beugler.com/ I believe the Reynolds 531 decals can be sourced from: http://www.hlloydcycles.com/index.htm and an ebay listing of theirs: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REYNOLDS-531-Double-Butted-tubing-decal-set-1977-84-NOS-Ex-frame-builder-stock-/310947083181?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item4865e3f3ad

I would suggest bead blasting to remove the paint and rust, then if possible electro-less nickel plating ( http://www.electroless-nickel-plating.co.uk/news/nickel-plating-road-and-mountain-bike-.php ) to protect the inside and outside of the frame and fork. If electro-less nickel plating is not possible, then silver powder coat. In either case, follow up by lining and decals, with multiple clear coat applications on top.

[Painkiller]

So Nigel, Powder coat advocate are we? Have you ever had it done? What do you like about it? Have you ever placed decals and clearcoated them over on top of powder? What type of clearcoat would be used for that?

[nfmisso]

(05-04-2014, 09:09 PM)painkiller Wrote:  So Nigel, Powder coat advocate are we? Have you ever had it done? What do you like about it? Have you ever placed decals and clearcoated them over on top of powder? What type of clearcoat would be used for that?

Never powder coated a bike, but many of the Ergotron products I designed are silver powder coat, with warning labels then clear coat on top. They probably are not very UV resistant though....

For this frame - without lugs, powder coat seems to be the obvious paint choice. Powder coating is the most durable paint currently available.

I get a professional to do all my painting....

[Painkiller]

Just wondered why you would powder coat. we @
http://www.matcor-matsu.com/index.php/projects

have been powder coating for years, and I realize there are several types of powder coatings, but honestly. It would be the last choice I would use on one of my bikes even for a freebie. I really do not see the durability factor of it at all as compared to other tried and true coatings. I think it has more to do with tree hugging and industrial waste factors more than how great it is, or isn't.

[nfmisso]

All of Ergotron's products with metal visible are powder coated - Ergotron makes highend office and medical furniture that has to look good and be durable. Powder coating has been the best solution for a decade or more. You will see Ergotron's medical carts in the top hospitals and medical centers around the world. Powder coating will even take steam sterilization without effecting the appearance.

[Karledwards]

Nigel

Would love to ask a few Jack Taylor question of you. I'm looking for a tall/small, like the one you outed back in 2012 on Ebay. Wife rides a 19" and I ride a 23.5-24". A tandem with that sort of size difference is hard to find.

Much appreciated.

http://www.karledwards.com

[hcjg1]

(07-28-2012, 12:41 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  Hi Bill

First, get very comfortable with the tandem with no one else on board. They handle a bit differently, kinda like a bus compared to a car.

Next make sure you and your wife read this:
http://www.gtgtandems.com/tech/propmethod.html

Bill McCready is the founder and president of Santana tandems. To me, he is one of, if not the most credible source of tandem information.

Always call out bumps before you get to them, warn of turns and stopping ahead of time.

Plan on your wife trying at least 5 or 6 different saddles before she finds one she is comfortable with. It will be different than her other bike saddles- if she rides.

Peddles - for awhile my wife really liked toe clips with SKS Sylvan pedals, now she likes Diamondback Bigfoot pedals. The Sylvans were giving her aching feet.

Plan on adjust her saddle hieght and angle often at first - bring the tools along if tools are required.

Search CL and ebay for a machine in your budget.

On the bike itself:
* I prefer bars which are bit wider than my normal bikes.
* powerful brakes are critical.
* tandems are very fast downhill - so fast that you can the rims hot enough for the tire to explode - so take it easy until you get a good feeling of how hot the rims get.
* tandems are slow going uphill.
* our T50 has 28/44/54 upfront and 12-30 in the back - we have used the highest and the lowest gears, and have been in stituation where it would have been nice to have even lower gears and even higher gears.

Go with tires with puncture protection, tire liners and thorn resistant tubes (slime and similar do not work) - wives have no patience for punctures.

I have max respect for anyone riding tandems. The tandems with blind and seeing person in the Paralympics track cycling blew my mind away. Good luck with this I love your attention to detail.