Disabled Mods for Cutting Frames ?

[melon]

What type of controller would I need for this , would the motor have to be level with the wheels i.e. as the frame on my walker arches in the centers , unless I built some sort of tray / box to support / house it below.

I Know some of them ( controllers ) are sensorless, but that there are instant ones as well, I just don't know if any of them would work with this i.e. as drill motors don't seem to in that high a demand for mods the way other things are.

thanks again.

chekola

[nfmisso]

(11-15-2010, 12:02 AM)melon Wrote:  So basically Id be taking Drill motor and converting it into something akin to one of those electric scooters like the Razor ?
...

Yes; it would not be difficult to attach a standard sprocket or pulley to the existing wheel, and a small sprocket or pulley to the drill motor. You can even use the trigger switch of the drill for your speed control. Note that you will need to get as big a sprocket as practical on the wheel, and as small a one as possible on the motor.

Reasons I am suggesting this route:

• No worry about the structural integrity of the frame
• cost
• ease of doing the modifications
• use almost all of the components from the drill including the speed control and reversing switch
• motor can be above, in front of, behind, where ever, as long as the wheel axis and motor axis are parallel
  

[melon]

(11-16-2010, 10:15 AM)melon Wrote:  

(11-15-2010, 06:05 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  [quote='melon' pid='12308' dateline='1289793760']
So basically Id be taking Drill motor and converting it into something akin to one of those electric scooters like the Razor ?
...

Yes; it would not be difficult to attach a standard sprocket or pulley to the existing wheel, and a small sprocket or pulley to the drill motor. You can even use the trigger switch of the drill for your speed control. Note that you will need to get as big a sprocket as practical on the wheel, and as small a one as possible on the motor.

Reasons I am suggesting this route:

• No worry about the structural integrity of the frame
• cost
• ease of doing the modifications
• use almost all of the components from the drill including the speed control and reversing switch
• motor can be above, in front of, behind, where ever, as long as the wheel axis and motor axis are parallel
  

The last one bothers me a bit as the frame is not like a bike on this knee cusier i.e. the wheel stick out a good 5 " to the outer rim . hub

Could a motor that far out from the main frame be secure enough to stay parallel with bumps etc ?

With bikes and scooters being mostly 2 wheels its not problem , but its hard to find any examples so i can see of how this would be done i.e. if i had some sort of housing bolted underneath the 2 cross bars it would really need to stick out like almost an F shape .

Im no egineer but I that would seem to me to be the most obvious , stable way of supporting it , and I'd defintely still need something to cut the housing or weld .

Something else that bothers me too is the noise level of some of these homebrew drill motors on utube i.e. If i was inside malls or shops as i usually am (at least based on the video below )it would draw attention to my mod as opposed to my intention of trying to remain descrete , mainly so it dosnt infringe any idea im disabled rather than some joy rider .

dewalt bike

Lastly, I wanted to ask what the smallest / largest sprocket (minimum ) i could expect to get away with for an 18 or 24 volt motor ?

I ask because the hub on this current wheel I have is probably larger than the tires Ive been looking to replace it with ( mtb , dirtboard ), so perhaps that wouldnt be so good an idea , if it means getting a smaller sprocket will comprimise it - unless of course I remove the brakes.

Sorry for all the questions.

At least, if i bought the drill i could use it to drill holes ( I dont have any tools at all other than a hammer and manual screwdriver , and whats left of my brain )

thanks again

melon

P.S. The add link feature doesnt seem to be working , i can see it in edits but not when its saved / posted ( I've tried x 3 now )

[nfmisso]

Hi Melon; sorry I haven't been able to respond. I will try to get back to you in the next few days.

[melon]

(11-18-2010, 01:28 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  Hi Melon; sorry I haven't been able to respond. I will try to get back to you in the next few days.

Thats ok Nigel , Im struggling a bit myself right now with health any way as things have taking turn for the worse again unfortunately ( been stuck inside for over a month now )

I have been asking around though , and pitching your ideas just to see what others thought .

Some mentioned outrunner motors like those used in RC , and some mentioned circular saw motors too .

And some ( on an electric scooter group ) even mentioned going right back to the hub again , so its like Ive come full circle.

I can take more photos of the crossbar to try to show what I mean about the brackets and see if I can get better myself , so i can focus more on this rather than worrying about my health .

Thanks Again any way for all your help.

Melon

[melon]

BTW. I didnt know this , but apparently the circular saws ( well Makita any way ) have internal gears ( which you probably know any way ) , so Im guessing thats why someone suggested that to me as better idea than a drill , but it seems strange why no else has thought of using it then as opposed to drills ?

I'm assuming there must be good reason - aside from the fact the perhaps usually more expensive to bay - or get 2nd hand ?

[melon]

(11-19-2010, 07:18 AM)melon Wrote:  BTW. I didnt know this , but apparently the circular saws ( well Makita any way ) have internal gears ( which you probably know any way ) , so Im guessing thats why someone suggested that to me as better idea than a drill , but it seems strange why no else has thought of using it then as opposed to drills ?

I'm assuming there must be good reason - aside from the fact the perhaps usually more expensive to bay - or get 2nd hand ?

Just an update of pictures I took of the axle , I dont know if it helps clear up any of the issues I mentioned but you can see now that there is actually an inner bearing which wasnt noticable before .

AXLE

Im not sure whether that means the thread is part of it like an extended bearing ( I tried to find pic but couldnt find any that fit ) or something more like a sleeve but below that inner bearing there are also 2 holes ( which you can see pics also ) for what its worth that might be a clue too , one of which has screw ( Im assuming to help fix the bolt ) as the thread looks pretty stuck in there or hammered ( i tried shifting it with small alan key or hex tool - but no luck )

Well thats about it , sorry about the pic quality its not exactly California over here , so sunnY days are usually as rare as my good ones ..

Melon

[nfmisso]

Hi Melon;

I looked at the pictures you posted. To me it appears that the axle does not rotate, and that the wheels rotate on the axle independently. Without actually being able to examine it up close, I cannot tell for sure.

I would put a sprocket on the inside of one wheel, and hang the motor in the center behind the axle. To do this, would require removing one of the wheels, and attaching a plate to the wheel. The plate is for securing a standard chain ring, with spacers. The chainring should be as large as practical - about the same diameter as the wheel, smaller diameter than the tire, so you don't have worry about it hitting the ground.

I would install the motor behind the axle, and maybe a little bit above the axle. Drills have step down gearboxes inline with the motor, and beefy bearings that will have no problem supporting a sprocket for a chain. The battery powered drills (after the gearbox) generally spin 1000 rpm of less, and will run smoothly at less than 10 rpm.

Circular saws ar designed spin the blade at 3600 - 5000 rpm; which is way too high for this application.

For your controller, you need speed, forward and reverse. A dynamic brake would also be desirable. A dynamic brake is basically attaching the motor leads to a high wattage low impedance resistor. The motor becomes a generator, the resistor dissipates the power as heat. Dynamic brakes work well for holding speed on down grades, and slowing down gradually. More sophisticated controllers can use a circuit to recharge the battery instead of heating up the resistor.

[melon]

(11-20-2010, 05:10 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  

Quote:Hi Melon;

I looked at the pictures you posted. To me it appears that the axle does not rotate, and that the wheels rotate on the axle independently. Without actually being able to examine it up close, I cannot tell for sure.

Yes, I think your right , it looks just like a traditional type thread from what I found .

Quote:I would put a sprocket on the inside of one wheel, and hang the motor in the center behind the axle. To do this, would require removing one of the wheels, and attaching a plate to the wheel. The plate is for securing a standard chain ring, with spacers. The chainring should be as large as practical - about the same diameter as the wheel, smaller diameter than the tire, so you don't have worry about it hitting the ground.

What about the width of the chain ring , or the width and length of the actual chain ?

Quote:I would install the motor behind the axle, and maybe a little bit above the axle. Drills have step down gearboxes inline with the motor, and beefy bearings that will have no problem supporting a sprocket for a chain. The battery powered drills (after the gearbox) generally spin 1000 rpm of less, and will run smoothly at less than 10 rpm.[/QUOTE ]

Im not sure how it would mount as the angle the cross bars slope at the rear are steeper until you come to the section where the beam of the knee rest is supported , which you can see below.

They also narrow as they slope as well.

seat post etc

I say this because the only mounts I can see below , are flat , so the motor will not level even if you do manage to mount it using the type below.

mount



[quote]Circular saws ar designed spin the blade at 3600 - 5000 rpm; which is way too high for this application.

For your controller, you need speed, forward and reverse. A dynamic brake would also be desirable. A dynamic brake is basically attaching the motor leads to a high wattage low impedance resistor. The motor becomes a generator, the resistor dissipates the power as heat. Dynamic brakes work well for holding speed on down grades, and slowing down gradually. More sophisticated controllers can use a circuit to recharge the battery instead of heating up the resistor.

I just saw one of these motors on ebay going for $29 , though hard to say what state its in.

kollmorgen

From what I was reading about drills dalwat ( esp hammer drill ) are noted for being bad for noise and this worries me a bit i.e. in terms of vibration - as most of the other drills dont see to have the same quality.

Also that robotmarket sells quite few other accessories including speed controllers which you can see here..

controllers

Was reading something about there being wireless ones that could possibly be used as well , but perhaps not cheap ??

thanks again,

melon

[melon]

[quote='nfmisso' pid='12350' dateline='1290244213'][QUOTE]


I would put a sprocket on the inside of one wheel, and hang the motor in the center behind the axle. To do this, would require removing one of the wheels, and attaching a plate to the wheel. The plate is for securing a standard chain ring, with spacers. The chainring should be as large as practical - about the same diameter as the wheel, smaller diameter than the tire, so you don't have worry about it hitting the ground.

[/QUOTE]

This is something else I've thinking about ( the wheels themselves )
On one had changing them would make it a lot easier over rough terrain , on the other it would be problem for the motor as most of the wheel size round 7" or 8 usually have small diameter hub , like 5 " compared to 7" I currently have with my existing wheels ( excluding the tire )

I dont want the wheels to big as it will make more difficult to move either so Im little caught trying to decide what i could or should do, is 5 " too small a sprocket , I mean is there minimum size you could recommend to give me a better idea ?

In meantime Im going to see if I can get bigger tires maybe just to test them and see how I do in terms of using them.

thanks,

melon

[melon]

dpx system I just saw this , thought you might be interested - when you get the chance.

I still prefer the idea of losing the whole drill , but if im wondering how one of their drives would work if it was mounted ( they claim you can get 4 miles )
demonstration



m

[melon]

Nigel,

If your still about I was hoping you could elaborate on what exactly you meant by a plate sprocket , do you mean just a plain sprocket ( hubless ) as I'm assuming you do ,or something else ?

When I looked here you see , I don't see any mention of plate sprocket nor on wiki , I see them sold but no explanation of what what makes them different from others I see sold here

Sorry if this sounds dense , but i'm not up to par with these terms so I only have whats on google as reference for anything that I cant explain.

thanks and merry xmas everyone,

melon

[melon]

(11-20-2010, 05:10 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  Hi Melon;

I looked at the pictures you posted. To me it appears that the axle does not rotate, and that the wheels rotate on the axle independently. Without actually being able to examine it up close, I cannot tell for sure.

I would put a sprocket on the inside of one wheel, and hang the motor in the center behind the axle. To do this, would require removing one of the wheels, and attaching a plate to the wheel. The plate is for securing a standard chain ring, with spacers. The chainring should be as large as practical - about the same diameter as the wheel, smaller diameter than the tire, so you don't have worry about it hitting the ground.

I would install the motor behind the axle, and maybe a little bit above the axle. Drills have step down gearboxes inline with the motor, and beefy bearings that will have no problem supporting a sprocket for a chain. The battery powered drills (after the gearbox) generally spin 1000 rpm of less, and will run smoothly at less than 10 rpm.

Circular saws ar designed spin the blade at 3600 - 5000 rpm; which is way too high for this application.

For your controller, you need speed, forward and reverse. A dynamic brake would also be desirable. A dynamic brake is basically attaching the motor leads to a high wattage low impedance resistor. The motor becomes a generator, the resistor dissipates the power as heat. Dynamic brakes work well for holding speed on down grades, and slowing down gradually. More sophisticated controllers can use a circuit to recharge the battery instead of heating up the resistor.

Not sure if anyone is reading this , but I wanted to ask ( in regards to mounting the plate that spocket would sit on ) how you would actually mount it ?

You see from the picture below there isnt really many places to secure it because of the flange / spokes that leave gap of some mm between where the plate would be and the the rest of the wheels hub .

wheel

The only other place would be round the edge just below the tires , unless you had the screw exposed /. secured into indented part of the wheel ( between the flanges / spokes )

I would just easily change the wheel but then it would also mean changing the axel / bolts or trying to find replacement wheel with a different sort of hub.

Im sure theres probably a way to DIY the wheel or mod it , but until i get more equipement probably beyond me.

melon