Miyata Americana

[JaredK]

Hey all,

I have a Miyata American with original derailleur and shifters and brakes (not pads).

Currently they have 700c's, and the center-pulls had enough room to adjust and work.

However, in my ignorance, I listened to a wonky-volunteer at a local bike co-op who told me I needed to put a 7-speed cassette on my rearwheel, instead of keeping the old 5-speed. As you can imagine, that messed things up a bit. Rear wheel is all screwed, so rear brake has been disconnected.

This kind of brings me to my reason for posting.

I want to: Purchase new wheels, new tires and new tubes and a new cassette and a new chain and (maybe) new brakes (definitely new pads).

Problems: very untrue wheels with lots of rolling resistance, very stretched chain, bent derailleur, old tires, incorrectly sized tubes.

At this moment in time I have $225 to spend. I also have a friend (new) with a shop and tools and a willingness to help me out, or at the very least use his shop.

But, I have NOT a clue how to go about purchasing the appropriate items. I've been reading around about the worries of switching old bikes from 27x1/4 to 700c, but this was not a worry for me, there is enough space.

When it comes to the parts I want to make as a high of an investment in durability and longevity as I can. Ideally, with biweekly, or monthly cleanups, I want this bike to not need investment again for a year or more.

In a few months I'll be able to put down another 100 or 200 dollars.

I understand I probably won't be able to purchase everything I need all at once, and that's okay. Give me what you think is my priority right now.


What do you guys recommend?

[silverarrow]

5 gear casette or freewheel? I suppose it's an old classic, and you could go on ebay and look for a NOS replacement cassette and a new chain, even derailleur. Maybe you have a repair shop in town with an interest in older bikes? If you can become friends with non-indexed gears and the rims are fine this is not a bad idea. I like old racer frames with lugs for everyday cycling, they are often very underrated. If you want a 7,8 or 9 gear casette you need a new wheel, and all gear parts replaced from handlebar down to the back hub. The old 5 speeds lasted much longer, didin't wear down as fast, but the new racer gears are really nice too, slide up and down surprisingly smooth.

[nfmisso]

Hi Jared;

Welcome aboard.

I could not find any information on a Miyata Americana; please post some pictures. I have a Miyata 310 frame that I am almost finished building up, just needs bar tape, a mirror, rack and lights to become one of my commuting bikes.

Please spend sometime on Sheldon Brown's site - a cassette and freewheel are two different things, and not interchangeable. You can get freewheels and cassettes on eBay and Amazon. My World Tourist originally had a 5 speed gear cluster (actually neither a freewheel or a cassette, but interchangeable with a freewheel), and now it has a 7 speed freewheel. My SR - since I started it as a frame and fork - has had a 7 speed cassette, and now has a 7 speed freewheel, different hubs, spokes and rims.

Trueing wheels is not a big deal, but I need a trueing stand - built my own, see the Tools section.

$225- will get a you an okay set of wheels, and not much else.

To provide direction we need to know exactly what you have, then determine what is easily repairable, and what has to be replaced. Your budget is too small to go at it with a good plan.

[GeorgeET]

Problems: very untrue wheels with lots of rolling resistance, very stretched chain, bent derailleur, old tires, incorrectly sized tubes.

At this moment in time I have $225 to spend. I also have a friend (new) with a shop and tools and a willingness to help me out, or at the very least use his shop.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The wheels if they are alloy are worth trueing, also clean and grease bearings , replace old bearings, IF its a cup and cone loose bearing set up/

That will save you lots of money. You can turn thebike ypside down and use the frame a a trueing stand. Gets close. Maaybe you have Bikerowave shops or some other DIY places around where you can take to bike to work on. The rest you can replace within your budget.

http://sheldonbrown.com/wheels/index.html

[JaredK]

It's a chro-moly steel frame.

This is the only picture I have of it. Camera on phone is broken right now.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/59968jn8entit1p/2012-08-31%2011.54.10.jpg

And so far as freewheel versus cassettes go, it doesn't matter, as I plan to buy a 5 speed wheelset, and it can thus be either freewheel or cassette, as currently I do not have a 5 speed cog on the back.

Let me list links to amazon to show what I'm looking at right now. I know I won't be able to buy top of the line items, so I'm going with the best that works around.

*Wheel: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AO5FAQ/

OR : http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0040DRGB4/

*Chain: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AYFRUE/

*Tire: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004T0E2LU/

*Tube: http://www.amazon.com/Slime-Healing-Tube-SCHRADER-standard/dp/B001N89UJA/

Derailleur is being bought from a friend who has an old, but better Sun Tour for cheap ($10, front and back)

So far, what do you think?

[1FJEF]

Wheels-
How much do you weigh?
If you switch to 700c your selection of tires is much better. You can also fit a larger (wider/taller) 700c tire than the 27' you had on there, I mean way bigger, which is a big deal if you're heavy.
Chain-
If you keep friction shifters then that chain is OK. I use KMC x8.93 & x8.99. KMC is good stuff. Ir the chain is stretched then the rear gears must be replaced with the chain.
There is no need to keep it a 5 speed freewheel. 5 to 7 should fit, which brings up the next issue- How wide are your rear drop outs? Pull the rear wheel, measure how wide of an axle fits, in millimeters, like this:

It will probably read 124-128mm, in other words, you have 126mm drop outs which should accept a 130mm O.L.D. rear wheel. If they measure 119-122mm then you have a minor issue.

Tires-
I own a set of those Schwalbe Marathon 27 x 1 1/4"(32mm). The reflective strip is amazing. The tire is heavy & feels slower than the 27 x 1 1/8"(28mm) gumwalls I had on there, but I felt safer as I am heavy.
Tubes-
I would do anything to avoid using a slime tube. Get a tire with great flat protection & install tire liners, like RhinoDillos or Stop Flat2.
Brake Pads-
I'm biased, I admit it, I've never found anything that works as well as Kool Stops in Salmon. Get Salmon colored even if you're not in the wet. Trust me. Don't get the replaceable pad models if you can avoid it.

[nfmisso]

If the Suntour derailleur is original, it is a mid 1970s bike - great find. My 310 is '82/'83/'84 http://forums.bikeride.com/thread-3598.html

(09-18-2013, 08:29 PM)JaredK Wrote:  .....And so far as freewheel versus cassettes go, it doesn't matter, as I plan to buy a 5 speed wheelset, and it can thus be either freewheel or cassette, as currently I do not have a 5 speed cog on the back.
....

It DOES matter; one will fit and work fine, and the other will not fit, and you'll have a nice paper weight. Wheelsets do not come with freewheels or cassettes installed.

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Go with these wheels:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0040DRGB4/
if you are buying wheels - but I strongly recommend against Green Canyon - will never purchase from them again. I am very pleased with Niagara, the couple mistakes they made, they corrected quickly.

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these tires are just as good, and ½ the price:
http://www.amazon.com/Avenir-Discovery-Road-Tires-Black/dp/B00165TW7U/

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Tubes - AVOID SLIME it does not work, only ruins the valves on the tubes. You'll need presta valve tubes for the above wheels:
http://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn-Resistant-Bicycle-PRESTA/dp/B00129ACNI/
you also should get one (or more) of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Innovations-In-Cycling-Inc-Adapter/dp/B001AT0YU6/

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KMC chains are good.

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You need a freewheel. Sunrace is better than Shimano:
http://www.amazon.com/Sunrace-Freewheel-14-28T-5-Speed-Black/dp/B000AYB57S/
Removal tool is not required for installation, be careful and do not cross-thread when you install, if you do, then you'll need the removal tool or shop to take it off for you.

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Brakes: http://www.amazon.com/Tektro-R559-Front-Brake-Caliper/dp/B007QNWVME/
front one is most important. You need the kind with the hex nut unless you want to drill your fork and frame - not me.
rear: http://www.amazon.com/Tektro-R559-Road-Brake-Caliper/dp/B007QN2PPC/

[GeorgeET]

10-4 to wheels. That looks like a nice set with sealed bearings and SS spokes. Next time around I'll replace my wheels instead fixing. Currently have 27 X 1 1/8" black rim with 1 1/4'' tire.

[1FJEF]

(09-18-2013, 01:28 PM)JaredK Wrote:  Currently they have 700c's, and the center-pulls had enough room to adjust and work.

I want to: Purchase new wheels, new tires and new tubes and a new cassette and a new chain and (maybe) new brakes (definitely new pads).

I've been reading around about the worries of switching old bikes from 27x1/4 to 700c, but this was not a worry for me, there is enough space.

What do you guys recommend?

Why purchase new 27" wheels when 700c will fit and he states that he's OK with changing? Don't say you have a bike with 27" wheels & everyone who rides it says it's the best thing since sliced bread as that's nonsense, it's the relaxed frame geometry they're enjoying and has nothing to do with the wheel size.
Maybe he can fit 700c with a freehub. Wider tires and a huge selection versus 27". Cassette versus freewheel.
How can wheel sets be recommended if we don't know his weight or the rear O.L.D.?
Why use the small budget towards new brakes if he's OK with what he has? Why not put the money into better wheels or other parts?
He said he'd have more money in a few months, so why not change the brakes then?
If I'm riding at night I want tires with reflective sidewalls.

[nfmisso]

Hi Jeff;

The OP said he wanted ISO630 (27") wheels.....

Personally, I'd be going with ISO622 (700c) with a 130mm OLD cassette hub (frame is 126mm, but will stretch); Velocity Dyad rims and Wheelsmith spokes.

I view the safety of the dual pivot brakes as very important as I ride in San Jose rush hour traffic while commuting.

[1FJEF]

(09-20-2013, 11:39 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  Hi Jeff;
The OP said he wanted ISO630 (27") wheels.....
I view the safety of the dual pivot brakes as very important as I ride in San Jose rush hour traffic while commuting.

I missed where the OP said he wanted 27", I see that his links were to them, but his original post stated there was no worry with 700c.
I'm underfunded, so I try to get by with what I can, he says he'll have more money in a while.
We still don't know what he weighs, or what he wants from the bike, road speed, comfort etc...
Years ago, Peter White politely refused to build a wheel with Dyads for me due to my weight.
Jared, where are you?

[JaredK]

Sorry to take a while to respond. Super busy with school and work, and I keep internet off at home so I keep reading and not surfing the web.

1FJEF: I weigh 155lbs. I am a very strong biker (As in, I squat on a good day 275lbs.)

Road speed, I average about 20mph, can go faster on flat, go slower when I'm riding with the lady.

The ONLY con I can come up with for 700c compared to 27" is that I'd have to pay to have the shop stretch the frame, which limits money I can spend on other parts. Also, 126mm is the correct spacing.

Comfort, I'm unsure how to respond.

Nigel! Thanks so much for all those links!

Guys: I'm going to pick up the kool stops (even though I just bought some plane jane dia compes).


Also: If I were to go with a cassette 27", what do you recommend?

[nfmisso]

(09-23-2013, 06:14 PM)JaredK Wrote:  .......
The ONLY con I can come up with for 700c compared to 27" is that I'd have to pay to have the shop stretch the frame, which limits money I can spend on other parts. Also, 126mm is the correct spacing.
.......

HUH - who gave that pile of BS ? No need to stretch the frame.

You'll have no trouble putting a 130mm hub in a steel frame designed for a 126mm - both my SR and 310 are 126mm nominal and I am running 130mm hubs.

Given your weight: I'd suggest these:
http://www.amazon.com/ZeroLite-Road-Comp-Wheel-Black/dp/B0081UW9VO/

I would get an 8 or 9 speed cassette, and just use your present RD and friction shifters; you might not be able to get the biggest and/or smallest cog, but given your fitness level, that will not be a problem. Later you can get a indexed shifters and a new RD.

[1FJEF]

Yeah Jared, you weigh nothing, you're strong & you like speed. I would go 700C, but you can get some quick tires in 27", there is just a huge variety in 700C. Like he said, 126mm frame to 130mm 700c wheel should be OK. Turn the bike over, loosen the rear wheel & remove. It may even spread a hair when you loosen. Pull the rear drop outs apart a little, see how a little force will spread them? We're talking 2mm per side.
If you want a 700c wheelset with a 126mm rear I know a guy who will make them for you, but we're talking almost $200/set.
Are both wheels in poor condition? You know you could have a rear made, buy a 7 or 8 speed cassette, a nice 8 speed (works on 5,6,7 also) chain and a really nice rear tube & tire. Keep the front stock for a few months and be under budget.
See if one of your buddies has a 130mm wheel for a test fit.

[JaredK]

Okay, I'll go 700c.

If I purchase those tektro brakes, will they reach the 700c wheels recommended?

And, if I don't like the way those wheels look, what would you recommend? I'm the kind of guy who won't buy a shirt even if it just has a little stitched logo, regardless of the brand. However, with looking around on Amazon, I'm not seeing many other choices of quality sets at a reasonable price. I could survive with the recommended.

So far, purchasing looks like this (things for sure):
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Brakes:
http://www.amazon.com/Tektro-R559-Front-Brake-Caliper/dp/B007QNWVME/
http://www.amazon.com/Tektro-R559-Road-Brake-Caliper/dp/B007QN2PPC/
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Tires: (Whatever size, any other recommendations?--Before I was thinking gator skins and/or schwalbe marathon, but these are cheaper, but are they as good?)
http://www.amazon.com/Avenir-Discovery-700c-Tires-Black/dp/B00165Q4Q2/
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Chain:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AYFRUE/
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Pads:
I am not sure, with looking at the kool stops, which ones to buy for my bike.




You guys rock by the way.

[nfmisso]

Hi Jared;

Thank you

The R559 brakes will work with ISO622 (aka 700c) or ISO630 (aka 27").

The Avenir tires are a good choice - they are most likely made by Kenda; at least my Avenirs were.

Chain: go with this http://www.amazon.com/KMC-7-8sp-chain-Silver-Brown/dp/B001CN6QA2/
With a cassette wheel, you will need to go with an 8, 9 or 10 speed cassette or a 7 speed and a spacer (NR). I'd suggest an 11-23 or 12-25 version of this:
http://www.amazon.com/Sunrace-8-Speed-Nickel-Plated-Cassette/dp/B00D9NDRX2/
or a similar SRAM. I have had bad experiences with low end Shimano freewheels and cassettes.

[1FJEF]

(09-24-2013, 04:26 PM)JaredK Wrote:  And, if I don't like the way those wheels look, what would you recommend? I'm the kind of guy who won't buy a shirt even if it just has a little stitched logo, regardless of the brand.

Tires:
(Whatever size, any other recommendations?--Before I was thinking gator skins and/or schwalbe marathon, but these are cheaper, but are they as good?)

Pads:
I am not sure, with looking at the kool stops, which ones to buy for my bike.

Wheels. I don't understand, do you want them less garish? More clean & simple?
Keep a sharp eye on CraigsList, I see brand new tires for cheap all the time. Recently Gator UltraHardshell 32mm x 700C for $50/pair unused locally.
Marathons are more of a heavy duty touring tire, Gator Skins are lighter, a bit more of a speed tire.
Do you ride at night alot? If so reflective wall tires are a great idea. If not, blackwalls with black bar tape would look good, or keep the blue tape & go with blue tires.
Do you want Kool Stops for the Tektros or the original brakes? The front brakes in your picture don't look like they are at max adjustment, will they work with 700C?
You still haven't answered the questions in post 14.

[JaredK]

(09-23-2013, 08:23 PM)1FJEF Wrote:  Yeah Jared, you weigh nothing, you're strong & you like speed. I would go 700C, but you can get some quick tires in 27", there is just a huge variety in 700C. Like he said, 126mm frame to 130mm 700c wheel should be OK. Turn the bike over, loosen the rear wheel & remove. It may even spread a hair when you loosen. Pull the rear drop outs apart a little, see how a little force will spread them? We're talking 2mm per side.
If you want a 700c wheelset with a 126mm rear I know a guy who will make them for you, but we're talking almost $200/set.
Are both wheels in poor condition? You know you could have a rear made, buy a 7 or 8 speed cassette, a nice 8 speed (works on 5,6,7 also) chain and a really nice rear tube & tire. Keep the front stock for a few months and be under budget.
See if one of your buddies has a 130mm wheel for a test fit.

Sorry, I forgot to answer these.

Currently (not the picture) the wheels I have on my bike are 700c. They are 130mm, and my original spacing was 126mm, I haven't taken the 700c off to measure since putting them on.

Both wheels are in poor condition, and are well worn, used wheels from a local co-operative.

The idea of working out a nice and new set for just the back doesn't seem bad, but I think I'd like to upgrade both, as I'll be riding through the winter on this bike, which is also why I'd like the grittier tires. By grittier I mean knobby, errrrrr, not exactly road tires. Am I making sense?

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Cassette:
This work? http://www.amazon.com/SRAM-cassette-PG-730-7-speed/dp/B009YHOLM8/

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Craigslist:
https://iowacity.craigslist.org/bik/4051336109.html
This work? I sent him an email, lowball.