GT Triple Triangle? Part. 2

[Bill]

I made this new thread due to fact I may have exceeded the limit on thread postings in the original. Anyways here is the last post on Part 1 thread...

REPOST and EDITED:
Ok I'll definitely go with dh13 for the drive aside rear and ss14 for the non drive side and full front wheel build. So the measurement for order is 2.0 mm diameter and 263mm length for the non drive side and 2.0 diam x 262 length drive side?
I was wandering if the SS14 would be good enough to go all the way around being that I only weigh 170lbs on my worse days.

[Bill]

There is another I did not think of earlier. The bearing in the front hub and the rear hub. I have not yet taken these apart and I am wandering if they are sealed bearing or loose? If sealed am I gonna be in for a problem or is it relatively easy to replace them?

[Painkiller]

Hello Bill, Are your hubs new or used? Is there any roughness? The sealed part would be the rubber around the axle assembly, the bearings on your hub are probably caged or loose. If they spin nice and for longer than 20 or 30 seconds leave them alone. If the axles are loose or just to dink around to familiarize yourself with these hubs and or for peace of mind then take apart and clean/ grease/reassemble.

[Bill]

(09-08-2012, 01:29 PM)painkiller Wrote:  Hello Bill, Are your hubs new or used? Is there any roughness? The sealed part would be the rubber around the axle assembly, the bearings on your hub are probably caged or loose. If they spin nice and for longer than 20 or 30 seconds leave them alone. If the axles are loose or just to dink around to familiarize yourself with these hubs and or for peace of mind then take apart and clean/ grease/reassemble.

They are used, but I'm unsure of the last maintenance on them. Just figured with them not spoked this would be a good opportunity to give them the new stuff they may need whether needed or not. Out of good advice I will check them for above problems or no problems lol. Back hub seems to roll good, but I did not continuously roll for 20secs .

[nfmisso]

Disclaimer - remember what I am like.

I would take them completely apart, clean and re-grease. They are loose ball, behind big rubber seals. I took apart my brand new Shimano hubs because they did not spin anywhere as nicely as my '80's vintage Suzue hubs.

[Bill]

Yea I am the type who would rather play it safe then be sorry down the road later. Reason for asking this I was reading some where lets say another bikeforum that these certain hubs were pressed in bearings. They all said that there was no way to remove the pressed in bearing without a special tool and that it would be tough to put new ones in. Then again that was "archived" information too. So for being 20+ year old hubs they deserve a nice cleaning up lol.
Now to go get the measurements on the front hub.

[xerxes]

Quote: I was wandering if the SS14 would be good enough to go all the way around being that I only weigh 170lbs on my worse days.

That would be fine, downhill/jump bikes use 14 guage spokes, I don't know about tandems, but I don't know of any single seat bikes that use 13 guage spokes.

[nfmisso]

(09-09-2012, 04:56 PM)xerxes Wrote:  

Quote: I was wandering if the SS14 would be good enough to go all the way around being that I only weigh 170lbs on my worse days.

That would be fine, downhill/jump bikes use 14 guage spokes, I don't know about tandems, but I don't know of any single seat bikes that use 13 guage spokes.

Bill - you're ½ the person I am !!!

36 SS14 work fine for me when properly tensioned, for a commuting bike on the rear wheel. The rear wheel on my SR now has over 2K miles on it with no adjustment after the first 100 miles because none was needed. Build them properly, let them settle in, re-adjust, and they'll be good until the brake pads wear through the rim.

14 ga. (2.0mm) will work fine for you all the way around. You could probably do fine with 1.7 or 1.8 in front and left rear and 2.0 right rear.

1.7 is half as strong as 2.0; 2.3 is 75% stronger than 2.0

the strength is only important within 19mm (3/4") of the hub.

[Bill]

Alright got the front out put ! The hub is 100mm OLD 50mm is a halfway point. Flange to center is 33 both left and right.

Left Right
R 1x 2x 3x 4x R 1x 2x 3x 4x
32 252.0 253.5 257.9 264.2 271.5 252.0 253.5 257.9 264.2 271.5

You must ensure the hub manufacturer allows radial spoking of this hub, many manufacturers do not.
Hub : HB-M550
Rim : Rim
Wheel type : Front normal
Hub diameters : Left = 38 Right = 38
Flange distance : Left = 33 Right = 33
Rim diameter : 540.6
Hub HB-M550
Rim Rim
Spoke type
Spoke count 32
Crosses
Spoke lengths Left Right
Initial selection
Ideal length
Alternate length

So if I am correct in my assumption I will have to order 3 different sized spokes? Example:
Front both sides : Wheelsmith SS14 2.0 x 264mm 1bag + bag of 50 nips
Rear drive side : Wheelsmith SS14 2.0 x 262mm 1bag + bag of 50 nips
Rear nondrive side : Wheelsmith SS14 2.0 x 263mm 1bag + bag of 50 nips
That sound about right?
Now I wanted to ask if me putting in 2.0 in the hub flange diameter the number increases to 270mm range for a 3x. That is the wrong way correct?

[Bill]

Here are the two critical ways I measured my hub. Note that these are for example use..

[nfmisso]

Hi Bill;

The 1st pic appears to be hole center to hole center which is correct.

I measure to the center of the flange - on the front, just measure center to center and dividing by two. The difference between the way measured and center to center is probably less than 0.2 mm. Check it.

Spokes and nipplies - looks correct (or at least very close). Note that you only need 64 nipples for this project; so ordering 150 gives you 86 spares.....

You may want to check out ebay for sellers that offer smaller quantities. There are a couple ebay sellers that custom cut the spokes to order, and will sell you 32 (16 of one length, 16 of a 2nd length) or 36 (18+18) to your length requirements.

[Bill]

Ok Nigel . I see where I can order only what I need maybe I'll go for the 36 count so I have a couple just in case . So when you say measure center to center you mean inside flange to inside flange?
I've also decided to remeasure the rear hub just in case. Reason is that the length on most of the wheel builds have stated a 2-3mm length difference unlike my first measurement of only 1mm. Do you or anyone else agree or disagree with that? I would just hate to spend that much money and be wrong. The math was right but out of fear my caliper may have been off.

[nfmisso]

(09-10-2012, 04:24 PM)Bill Wrote:  Ok Nigel . I see where I can order only what I need maybe I'll go for the 36 count so I have a couple just in case . So when you say measure center to center you mean inside flange to inside flange?
I've also decided to remeasure the rear hub just in case. Reason is that the length on most of the wheel builds have stated a 2-3mm length difference unlike my first measurement of only 1mm. Do you or anyone else agree or disagree with that? I would just hate to spend that much money and be wrong. The math was right but out of fear my caliper may have been off.

Hi Bill

inside to inside will be one flange thickness less than center to center - center to center is what you need for the calculator. Outside to outside will be one flange thickness more than center to center.

my rears have been 1 or 2 mm different side to side.

[Bill]

If that is then why does the calculator show in the help illustration to measure left to center from the inside part of the flange? Same with the right to center?

---

Not going to post the new figures as they basically state the same 262mm non drive side and the 263mm drive side. So guess we will go with that. lol.

[Bill]

Oh the rims are in and now I am ordering the the spokes.

[RobAR]

Bill. Spoke Calc's use the length of inner spokes (head out on the hub flange) because they are the shorter of the two and we can't buy spokes in .5 mm increments. This saves an incredible amount of rotational weight. Right?

[Bill]

So that means my calculation is correct?

[nfmisso]

(09-10-2012, 09:59 PM)Bill Wrote:  So that means my calculation is correct?

Yes - actually you'd be okay ±1mm on any rim, and with the double wall, you have a lot more room length wise, but you need to make sure that there enough threads engaged.

[Bill]

That only way to tell that is to order and hope they are correct size.

[nfmisso]

Bill, have faith in Engineering