Disabled Mods for Cutting Frames ?

[melon]

Hello Everyone - ( This is my first offical post , so I hope Im not breaking any rules )

Any way, as the Thread title suggests, I am looking for ways I can modify existing cutting methods so I can hopefully use one of those - more affordable Dremel Rotary Tools for cutting a frame ( not a bike frame ) but actually a mobility device I plan on trying to add a motor too .

The problem is Im not very good with vibrations in general ( even with electric toothbrushes ) as they tend to affect my very sensitve / weak joints and muscoskeletal tissue in general , so I was wondering if there was any way round this.

What I was hoping to do then was seeing if there was a way I could clamp one of these tools in so it was stable but still able to rotate so all i would have to do is turn it while the rotary tool was held in place.

As the item I need to cut is too large to move round that blade ( more akward than heavy given theres no way to disassemble it ) I was also hoping there might be a way I could also move the clamps to rotate horizontally i.e. as well as vertically.

Im not sure how easy this would be using a clamp system , or even if there are better methods that would allow me to do something like this, as my knowldege of clamps boils down to vice ones and thats almost it.

The mobility device in question , which I have linked too below , is not so heavy , but defiently too large for me to hold as you will see from pic below.

knee crusier

I dont know any one else who could help with this , and TBH , would rather like the freedoom of doing it myself if I could , so If any one has any suggestions or setups I could use to cut this using a dremel ( assuming dremel can ) I really any suggestions you have.

Thanks for reading this

Melon

[KC-Steve]

Welcome to the forum. I'm probably one of the few people here that doesn't like Dremel tools except for very specialized applications. There are many other tools that work better for things like cutting metal.

I would use an angle grinder with a cutting blade first. But then you mention something about weak joints so that might not be a good tool to use given that an angle grinder is like a Dremel on steroids. An angle grinder can also be VERY dangerous if you have never used one. It requires eye-protection, leather gloves, and body protection from possible shattered cutting blade if not used properly.

Another choice might be a sawzall power tool. Or just a hand-held hack saw. It would take a little longer than a grinder but it is also very cheap to buy. I haven't bought one in a long time but guess they are still under $10. And I doubt you would need a clamp if you use the hack saw.

Good luck.
Steve

[melon]

(11-09-2010, 02:26 PM)KC-Steve Wrote:  Welcome to the forum. I'm probably one of the few people here that doesn't like Dremel tools except for very specialized applications. There are many other tools that work better for things like cutting metal.

I would use an angle grinder with a cutting blade first. But then you mention something about weak joints so that might not be a good tool to use given that an angle grinder is like a Dremel on steroids.

Another choice might be a sawzall power tool. Or just a hand-held hack saw. It would take a little longer but it is also very cheap to buy. I haven't bought one in a long time but guess they are still under $10.

Good luck.
Steve

Hi Steve,

I considered hacksaw but i doubt i could use it , im not weak but in general reptitive motions or any sort - esp fast would leave me in a world of pain.

This sawzall sounds interesting , I will look into it .

I also noticed Dremel had another tool that reminded me of a hacksaw a bit
dremel trio

thanks again , always good to hear from both ends of the specturm .

melon

[KC-Steve]

If you are only going to use it occasionally, the Harbor Freight sawzall would be the way to go. . .

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-amp-reciprocating-saw-with-rotating-handle-65570.html

At $25 it should do the job. Also get metal cutting blades. I see metal blades are included in the HF saw. Others can cost well over $100. And corded tools cost less than battery tools. The batteries wear out and cost as much as the tool itself.

Steve

[melon]

(11-09-2010, 03:10 PM)KC-Steve Wrote:  If you are only going to use it occasionally, the Harbor Freight sawzall would be the way to go. . .

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-amp-reciprocating-saw-with-rotating-handle-65570.html

At $25 it should do the job. Also get metal cutting blades. I see metal blades are included in the HF saw. Others can cost well over $100. And corded tools cost less than battery tools. The batteries wear out and cost as much as the tool itself.

Steve

Yes if their lithium thats not cheap - I know from e-bike adventures.

That saw looks like quite the steal ( but if I planned to do this long term - as I hoped to do ) might be a issue if the blades brake and i need to fork out for new ones.

Is it possible to buy some sort of workstation for this though that could support that weight / size , like the ones below for the Dremel ?

workstation

And if i did decide to go with Dremel ( based purely on the workstation ) what one would you recommend ?

Thanks again ,

melon

[KC-Steve]

Blades are cheap and designed to be replaced often. Can't help ya with the workstation. I normally use a vise attached to my metal welding table top for anything. Or just a c-clamp, vise grips, yada-yada.

Steve

[nfmisso]

Hi Melon;

Based on what you have written on your condition, I would worry about a sawsall more than an angle grinder.

Harbor Freight does have a stand for angle grinders to make them into sort of a mini-chop saw. You might be able to mount that to a table and maneuver the thing you want to cut into it.

Both angle grinders and sawsalls give a very strong kick when you start them up. When running, the grinder has relatively high frequency buzzing vibration. Sawsalls have lower frequency, and much higher amplitude vibration - they need to be held with two strong hands.

You don't list your location; there are probably people on this list that can help you set up a tool to do what you want. I live in San Jose, and am currently on a business trip in China.

[melon]

(11-10-2010, 12:11 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  Hi Melon;

Based on what you have written on your condition, I would worry about a sawsall more than an angle grinder.

Harbor Freight does have a stand for angle grinders to make them into sort of a mini-chop saw. You might be able to mount that to a table and maneuver the thing you want to cut into it.

Both angle grinders and sawsalls give a very strong kick when you start them up. When running, the grinder has relatively high frequency buzzing vibration. Sawsalls have lower frequency, and much higher amplitude vibration - they need to be held with two strong hands.

You don't list your location; there are probably people on this list that can help you set up a tool to do what you want. I live in San Jose, and am currently on a business trip in China.

Hi,

As long as it was fixed there so I didnt have to hold it , but rather the object I wanted to cut , it might not big a problem.

I'm not in the US, and unfortunately and not the greatest area when it comes to probably getting help.

Most of the tradesmen here are thieves when it comes doing that that sort of thing , and getting it sent somewhere else and then back again would be cheap.

As amazon are very good over here with returning opened items , I was planning to try the Dremel to see how things go before committing ( naughty I know , but I am desperate )

I see they have the lithium 8200 which I thought I could test on one of their workstation , some old bike frame and use one of those reinforced blades ( whatever they are ) that someone on hobby forum mentioned.

thanks

melon

[KC-Steve]

(11-10-2010, 12:11 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  . . .Based on what you have written on your condition, I would worry about a sawsall more than an angle grinder. . . Sawsalls have lower frequency, and much higher amplitude vibration - they need to be held with two strong hands. . .

In all honesty, ANY POWER TOOL is going to require strong hands no matter what you do, Dremels included. Like I said, the hack saw is the best bet. And probably the safest to use.

Steve

[melon]

(11-10-2010, 05:46 PM)KC-Steve Wrote:  

(11-10-2010, 12:11 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  . . .Based on what you have written on your condition, I would worry about a sawsall more than an angle grinder. . . Sawsalls have lower frequency, and much higher amplitude vibration - they need to be held with two strong hands. . .

In all honesty, ANY POWER TOOL is going to require strong hands no matter what you do, Dremels included. Like I said, the hack saw is the best bet. And probably the safest to use.

Steve

I saw this doing a search tonight for stand alone stands , its seems ok
what do you think ?

adjustable stand

Of course securing it on so i dont have to hold it is another thing, it sounds like I'd also have to get a wider base to bolt the stand into for extra stability .

The area I want to cut is about 10 " in height ( with the knee crusier on it sides ) so I dont really need big stand

m

[nfmisso]

......
adjustable stand
......
[/quote]
Hi Melon;

That is NOT an angle grinder. It is a bench grinder on a stand. The stand needs to be bolted to a concrete floor.

This is:
angle grinder

Harbor Frieght used to sell a stand to convert an angle grinder into a chop saw. I could not find it. Here is a chop saw that might work for you; it needs to be bolted to a strong bench.

cut off saw

[KC-Steve]

Nigel's right, that is a bench grinder and a completely different animal.

Grizzly sells the Taiwan-built chop saw angle grinder conversion,
http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-1-2-Angle-Grinder-Stand/G8183

But I still take issue with the fact that the angle grinder is probably the most dangerous power tool around, if you don't know how to use it with a cutting disk. I have three angle grinders and somewhat fear using each one of them to this day. I have never feared using a sawzall though. But I love the fact that angle grinders can cut through metal like butter, sand metal to a high polish, or even sharpen lawn mower blades with ease. It will even catch dead leaves and grass on fire if you aren't careful (sparks flying).

Melon, you are inadvertently making your own best argument for NOT using power tools of any kind. We all want you to continue to have ten fingers so you can keep coming back here with new questions.

Steve

[melon]

(11-11-2010, 01:12 AM)KC-Steve Wrote:  Nigel's right, that is a bench grinder and a completely different animal.

Grizzly sells the Taiwan-built chop saw angle grinder conversion,
http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-1-2-Angle-Grinder-Stand/G8183

But I still take issue with the fact that the angle grinder is probably the most dangerous power tool around, if you don't know how to use it with a cutting disk. I have three angle grinders and somewhat fear using each one of them to this day. I have never feared using a sawzall though. But I love the fact that angle grinders can cut through metal like butter, sand metal to a high polish, or even sharpen lawn mower blades with ease. It will even catch dead leaves and grass on fire if you aren't careful (sparks flying).

Hello Once Again !

Taking all these negatives into account , let me ask you the following:

1 ) If I did use one of those chop saw conversions , what would the risk be i.e how could I get kickback from that if Im not even holding it ( technically ) and I bolt it down ?

2 ) Which brings me too this video I watched .

Is this automatic stop any good , and if so why not just buy something like this bosch to ensure I still have whats left of me ?

thanks again ( the last time i did metal work was over 2 decades ago ) so excuse my lack of ignorance when it comes to angle grinders , chop saws .

I dont think I wouldn't be to handle it but I just couldn't do it for too long before it started affected me , but if it had that cutoff option ( if the worst came to the worst ) I dont see what the problem would be.

Eagerly Awaiting your answer

Melon

[KC-Steve]

I was just trying to warn you of the hazards of using an angle grinder. I have never used Bosch. I have a Skil, Harbor Freight, and a Milwaukee but remain very guarded when using all three. I have never had a problem but the potential always exists. Did you notice in the Bosch clip that the guy was wearing eye protection, leather gloves and a protective body garment over his shirt? There is a good reason for that.

I won't try and guess what COULD possibly go wrong and you sound like you are going to do what you wish no matter what I say. But I will add, if you want to use it indoors then you have an added potential of fire, and the possibility of breathing silicon dust or whatever the blade, sanding wheel, or grinding wheel is made of. There are a large number of potential problems, unless you are experienced or thoroughly knowledgeable of the tool's use. That is the way it is with ANY power tool.

Steve

[nfmisso]

(11-12-2010, 12:02 AM)KC-Steve Wrote:  I was just trying to warn you of the hazards of using an angle grinder. I have never used Bosch. I have a Skil, Harbor Freight, and a Milwaukee but remain very guarded when using all three. I have never had a problem but the potential always exists. Did you notice in the Bosch clip that the guy was wearing eye protection, leather gloves and a protective body garment over his shirt? There is a good reason for that.

I won't try and guess what COULD possibly go wrong and you sound like you are going to do what you wish no matter what I say. But I will add, if you want to use it indoors then you have an added potential of fire, and the possibility of breathing silicon dust or whatever the blade, sanding wheel, or grinding wheel is made of. There are a large number of potential problems, unless you are experienced or thoroughly knowledgeable of the tool's use. That is the way it is with ANY power tool.

Steve

Ditto.

IF you elect to do metal cutting, even with a small dremel like tool; you need to have BC or ABC type fire extinguisher at hand - a type A is not sufficient. The sparks flying are several thousand degrees.

Melon, the more your write, the scarier it is for the rest of us. The only people that do not loose fingers, or worse with power tools are those of us who really understand what these things can do to a body; and respect the tools for the danger they are. A fragmenting angle grinder blade is the same as an anti personnel mine. A sawsall will cut through a arm, leg or whole frozen turkey in a blink of an eye. The person using these things needs to be totally alert, and physically capable ALL the time the power is on. It is too easy to kill or maim, not only yourself, but anyone near you.

I have many power tools - they are all dangerous. Letting down your guard in the slightest will have dire consequences.

[melon]

I appreciate both of your concerns - i really do , but If I dont find a way to do this then I am basically very restricted to say the least .

Have you ever been in powerchair or mobility scooter ?

Because while its not loosing a body part i can tell you its not fun to have you life dependent on a heavy lead 24 amp battery that only allows you a couple of miles ( and thats not taking into account the bad pavements or anything else )

So you basically go the same routes for fear you'll breakdown or the battery will run - like some slow ride that never ends , until you wish it would.

Until i started using my knee cruiser that was my reality for almost 2 years , then a year housebound in room before that ( i mean literally in the same room other than the toilet or the kitchen ) and before that 3 years on crutches .. ( I have been in pain now with more problem than you'd care to know for over 20 yrs now and I am only 35 )

Until i had that knee cruiser my life then revolved going to the same shops on the same route with the same people to come back to same house knowing there was nothing to look forward other than the same thing. ( And thats without the numerous other issues that basically have me unable to do anything other than sit and type or even smell )

My arms aren't good enough I can use wheelchair ( but i can lift pull things including beds 24 am batteries )and the powerchairs are useless because of the vibrations off the foot rests, so that leaves me with just the mobility scooter which in general has far less range, and extra weight for each battery amp you go up.

i thought by adding small hub motor to my knee cruiser i could use the better half of my body while accessing all those places i wanted to go and miss , and as this is probably my only / best chance of ever doing that without having the anxiety of worrying about a battery , I wanted to everything I could to take it.

There is no way I am going to risk the chance , by being careless because I have to be careful as it is i.e. I can barely even sit in vehicles my joints are so sensitive to vibrations , but if it means I can achieve that , and no one will help I'll be dammed if Im going to let fear , chance or anything else get in my way.

You could die any second when it come to it , its just your lack of self awareness that stops you realizing that and good does of ego that maintains it.

True I may more physically vulnerable but don't think for second Id walk into something like that with my eyes closed , if I did I wouldn't be here asking questions.



melon

[nfmisso]

Hi Melon;

Lets start this over, in a methodical manner. I am a mechanical design engineer, so professionally, I have to think methodically, and study the problem before designing the solution.

As I understand it:
* the knee cruiser works for you for very short trips.
* you would like to add a motor and battery to the knee cruiser to provide you with greater range.

But why do you want to cut the frame?

What is the goal of the project? Let's start with a statement of the final goal, and work backwards from there. I have a feeling you are making this more complicated and expensive than it should be.

Best Regards.

[melon]

(11-14-2010, 05:48 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  Hi Melon;

Lets start this over, in a methodical manner. I am a mechanical design engineer, so professionally, I have to think methodically, and study the problem before designing the solution.

As I understand it:
* the knee cruiser works for you for very short trips.
* you would like to add a motor and battery to the knee cruiser to provide you with greater range.

But why do you want to cut the frame?

What is the goal of the project? Let's start with a statement of the final goal, and work backwards from there. I have a feeling you are making this more complicated and expensive than it should be.

Best Regards.

Hello Again,

I wanted to cut the frame so I could try to fit an axle as opposed to my current fitting which involves bolt serving as the axle.

I spoken to others on many forums about this and theres just no way to put hub motor on the wheel ( esp with the current setup ) which used these sort of bolt axles to screw in to secure the wheel, so that is why I wanted to cut it i.e. to modify or replace it completely so I have a proper axle .

The idea being if I have proper axle then I can use a low small powered hub motor to power both rear wheels for when I need assistance or to go over rough terrain - or uphill - a bit like pedelec bike .

Aside from the mechanical issues of fitting that on , there is also the issue with speed .

It would be ideal if for example it was like some sort of propulsion motor that was in sync with my step , otherwise I suppose the alternative is just some sort of foot rest I can rest my walking leg briefly while I use the motor uphill or whatever .

Melo

[nfmisso]

(11-14-2010, 11:43 AM)melon Wrote:  I spoken to others on many forums about this and theres just no way to put hub motor on the wheel ( esp with the current setup ) which used these sort of bolt axles to screw in to secure the wheel, so that is why I wanted to cut it i.e. to modify or replace it completely so I have a proper axle .

The idea being if I have proper axle then I can use a low small powered hub motor to power both rear wheels for when I need assistance or to go over rough terrain - or uphill - a bit like pedelec bike .

Aside from the mechanical issues of fitting that on , there is also the issue with speed .

It would be ideal if for example it was like some sort of propulsion motor that was in sync with my step , otherwise I suppose the alternative is just some sort of foot rest I can rest my walking leg briefly while I use the motor uphill or whatever .

Melo

Hi Melon;

I would not go with a hub motor.

An easier approach would be a belt or chain drive. Adding a sprocket to the existing wheel is not difficult.

For the motor, I'd use a 18V or 24V cordless drill, then it is only a matter of fabricating simple brackets.

No cutting of the frame, which involves some scary structural integrity issues.

[melon]

(11-14-2010, 07:07 PM)nfmisso Wrote:  

(11-14-2010, 11:43 AM)melon Wrote:  I spoken to others on many forums about this and theres just no way to put hub motor on the wheel ( esp with the current setup ) which used these sort of bolt axles to screw in to secure the wheel, so that is why I wanted to cut it i.e. to modify or replace it completely so I have a proper axle .

The idea being if I have proper axle then I can use a low small powered hub motor to power both rear wheels for when I need assistance or to go over rough terrain - or uphill - a bit like pedelec bike .

Aside from the mechanical issues of fitting that on , there is also the issue with speed .

It would be ideal if for example it was like some sort of propulsion motor that was in sync with my step , otherwise I suppose the alternative is just some sort of foot rest I can rest my walking leg briefly while I use the motor uphill or whatever .

Melo

Hi Melon;

I would not go with a hub motor.

An easier approach would be a belt or chain drive. Adding a sprocket to the existing wheel is not difficult.

For the motor, I'd use a 18V or 24V cordless drill, then it is only a matter of fabricating simple brackets.

No cutting of the frame, which involves some scary structural integrity issues.

So basically Id be taking Drill motor and converting it into something akin to one of those electric scooters like the Razor ?

thanks

melon