(01-22-2020, 08:05 PM)Zviedrs Wrote: These days I have been looking at Velosaloon before sleep as bike project is on my mind for the next months & Vienna is quite close. How do you choose your frames? What are the key selling points that attract you? For instance, when we look at current offering: https://www.velosaloon.com/collections/vintage-frames-vintage-rahmen
I had started to respond in depth, but did not save when leaving device. I will summarize:
When choosing a frame (assuming you know the dimensions wanted) I get one that is suitable for its highest level of utilization. I will not want a touring frame if my primary riding mode is of a racing nature even when road commuting. I'll modify the group/wheels to suit other uses. Know what types/widths of tires you plan to run. You don't often see that listed for frames, but I use 30mm tires (will not fit on many of my frames) on my "all-around"/trainer bike to ride on many terrains, and although it is not my commuter, it can readily serve everyday needs with guards and rack. It still started as a race bike and it can revert to one in 15-20mins. (23mm tires/tubes put on, rack/guards removed). I always ride over 17.5mph/28Kph and like a race frame for most of my riding. Rider size can affect utilization. For myself being of smaller stature serves well since I would not overstress a lightweight frame designed for a rider up to 50-60 lbs heavier if loaded for general touring. If you bias toward touring consider chainstay lengths, certain pannier to shoe clearances may come into play; longer and shorter chainstays may be problematic. When choosing the frame features it just comes down to personal preferences: guard/rack/bidon mounting capability, fork style (Colnago started using straight blades c. 1987), lugged/non-lugged, material(s)(steel, alloy, combinations, etc.), dropout style/type, etc. Remember, paintwork, pantographs, and embellishments, etc. do not make a better riding bike (psychologically maybe). I would enjoy a ride on a "Mexico Oro" with like components, but a regular base model "Mexico" with scratches and some rust would be no less desirable in performing the same function. If you are looking at it having some collectable/higher resale value ("bike collecting" is a separate topic) then sacrifices might be made; size not "perfect", not your favorite color, components (components specific to "period" frames is a separate topic), etc.; unfortunately requiring additional care to maintain its value. As a general rule "fancy" details like pantographs, stampings, chrome, and/or "special" paintwork are on the higher quality/limited production frames/bikes; but there are exceptions! Remember, one accident can mess up that investment! I take special care when and where I ride a "collectable" bike (technically, and in my opinion a bike that is for a collection should be cleaned/rebuilt and/or restored and not ridden except maybe as a "parade" bike and/or one entered in a show). Of course "Eroica" events are an "at your own risk" situation; thus I do not generally ride my best bikes too often in a public environment, but I do get most of them out on the "empty" bike trails where I stand very little chance of a mishap caused by vehicular, bike, and/or pedestrian traffic. Taking a country ride is not the same as city commuting concerning the risk to you and the bike. If you want a certain make and model bike for the aforementioned reason (collecting and) riding I'd recommend finding a frame in an aesthetically poor condition with like parts (properly functional), and a same frame in great condition built with like parts. Probably hard to get identical frame sizes and now you are having to store and maintain 2 bikes. I have 3 identical frames make, model, and size (and color for that matter: 2 out of 3 frames); one pure investment/collectable (100% original, not ridden; I rode 1/4 mile on it); one for training/racing; one for general use (some rust, but good function). It allows me to keep the "NOS" ride hanging on the wall while still be able to ride "that same bike" "vicariously" via the riding of an identical frame/set-up. My group of bikes tend to be in the middle of highly collectable range to decent vintage/somewhat rare brands (probably typical for many riders/collectors out there) that I generally have no problem using on a daily basis. In many cases the parts on the frame far out value the actual frame set itself. On frames with a value under $200 my parts are usually $200-$300 as a group. It is hard to build a nice vintage ride with period parts for under $400-$500 and also be able to get the same in resale value unless a particular frame and/or part(s) has appreciated in value over a fairly short period of time. My outlook on value for my bikes is taken over a minimum of 10 years, and although the value for older frames has been fairly consistent in the last few years (dependent on region also), there may be a drop in interest and what was garnering a decent price one year may not be in another. Also, personal preference regarding value is a big factor. I am not all that enamored with Bianchis (I have no issues with them, but they can keep their blue-green/celeste blue paintwork); so your Bianchi while having a certain value to you does not have the same to me; and the same goes for others considering a bike make that I might have; I know plenty of people who do not overly care about vintage Colnagos compared to other like bikes of the same era. To each his own. Since you are dealing with a better selection of vintage frames/bikes in Europe, I would expect that you should be able to find something very suitable in make/model/size at a reasonable price (savings on shipping is a big plus). As I do in the US, it is always best to research the local private sales online and in the newspaper ("garage/yard", estate, etc.), and small shops first before buying from a "vintage bike resale" shop (although it is a great place to compare products). My best buys have come from private sales and they were generally complete bikes that I paid the same or less than I would have for just a frame. If I buy from the European dealers, I always try for some sort of discount; primarily to defray the shipping and/or customs expenses. Frames do ship relatively cheap (I've paid $25-$50), but a complete bike starts to get expensive (I've paid $90-$150, but have seen up to $300; all shipping from the same area/country). if I can't get a minimum of 10% of the price (whether buying bulk or not) I generally won't get that item(s). Might try again months later if still available since most shops are trying to "move" their product in order to provide new items of interest; though usually excepting the very highest priced/rarest items. I believe Velosaloon has a filter for viewing their items based on price and/or length of time it has been listed; always make offers on the "oldest" items first and see what happens. Also consider if any components are included (one pantographed part may add $100+ to the price; and often headsets and/or bottom bracket assy's are included adding to the price). One dealer I've dealt with for a few years gives me 30% off the top on any frames and/or parts, but not complete bikes; although I do get a very reasonable shipping cost without any customs expenses added. I will make an offer to Velosaloon on couple of frames this month if I complete my desired projects, but since there is no rush or need my offer will be fairly low given their asking prices; they can only say no.
As a final note: speaking for myself, the best frame/bike is the one most comfortable in regards to fit and function. I know after decades what feels best to me now, and it is not on a frame built using any of the various "sizing" methods used, even those considering flexibility. Most size a frame much smaller than I would like; that is why it is important to know how you will feel riding a given range of sizes. Can you go a little shorter or longer on a top tube and/or seat tube? Will crank and/or stem length allow for not having a perfect frame size? I have ridden a 43cm up to a 62cm (ST c-c, various TT lengths, etc), and regularly ride 47cm to 57cm; in most cases I can make a bike to fit my use (change: cranks, seat post offset, stem) if the actual frame size is not optimal (51-52cm, I'm 5'7"/1.7m).
And that was a "summary"! I was much more specific in the detailed version.
I hope you are able to get a good deal on something that suits your needs. I may have something that might work for you both in fit and cost, but I would need to know what you are specifically looking at regarding use and size (yours and the frame) regarding frame and/or parts. I do not sell for "profit"; merely to cover my costs regarding initial expenses, time to refurbish (if applicable), and shipping/customs. Most frames I'm moving out of the shop are going to be larger in size (56cm-62cm c-c ST). Of course it would be hard to match your local deals when adding shipping, but it might be the frame/size you're not able to find; who knows. I know that I would not be as high in price as the "dealers" out there, but I'm not in the sales business; just rebuilding/restoration. I sell my excess and/or unused items only (generally frames) so there is no need to "try to make money" from that which I don't want or need. I will not knowingly sell anything damaged and/or in poor working order (unless requested for spare parts/repair purposes). Parts may not be polished, but will be clean/rebuilt/lubed if needed.
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