What spoke lengths for rear wheel M529 and Rhyno Lite?

[TrailShredder]

First time attempting to build a wheel. I'm getting cold feet and I'm starting to wish I had just ordered one of the bargain basement $70 wheels off eBay.

I already have in possession the Shimano m529 rear hub and the 26" Sun Rhyno Lite 32h is on the way. I've ran the numbers to get the spoke lengths but would feel more comfortable if someone with more experience could run them. Using 3-cross lacing.

I plan on using Sapim Race double butted spokes and nipples.

ERD 548mm for Sun Rhyno Lite 26"

M529 Rear Hub Specs
Non-Drive Side Center To Flange: 33.5mm
Drive Side Center To Flange: 19.5mm
Drive Side Flange Diameter: 61.0mm
Non-Drive Side Flange Diameter: 61.0mm

Thanks!

I've read through some wheel building sites and have watched a few video tutorials but could still use some tips and tricks.

[nfmisso]

For you first wheel build use straight gauge 2.0mm (14 ga.) spokes. Wheel building is something you have to go into slowly with your eyes open.

Read: http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Also note that the Sun Rhyno Lite is not the easiest wheel to build. I like Velocity's Aeroheat: http://www.amazon.com/Velocity-Aero-Heat-559mm-Silver/dp/B001PT9VXW/ because they are round, square and flat, which makes them very easy and fast to build.

I lubricate the elbow of the spoke and the nipples with TriFlow.

Make sure you start every spoke with the same amount of threads showing - this is very important to get a wheel with good axial (side to side) runout and good radial (roundness) runout.

take a look at my truing stand: http://forums.bikeride.com/thread-3834.html

I'll run the numbers for you this evening.

[TrailShredder]

(04-23-2014, 11:43 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  For you first wheel build use straight gauge 2.0mm (14 ga.) spokes. Wheel building is something you have to go into slowly with your eyes open.

Read: http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Also note that the Sun Rhyno Lite is not the easiest wheel to build. I like Velocity's Aeroheat: http://www.amazon.com/Velocity-Aero-Heat-559mm-Silver/dp/B001PT9VXW/ because they are round, square and flat, which makes them very easy and fast to build.

I lubricate the elbow of the spoke and the nipples with TriFlow.

Make sure you start every spoke with the same amount of threads showing - this is very important to get a wheel with good axial (side to side) runout and good radial (roundness) runout.

take a look at my truing stand: http://forums.bikeride.com/thread-3834.html

I'll run the numbers for you this evening.

Thanks for the reply, Nigel.

I kind of had my heart set on DB spokes and was one of the reasons I didn't purchase a budget machine built wheel. Can you explain the difference in building technique for DB vs. straight gauge spokes?

Unfortunately the Rhyno is already on its way :-( The return policy and shipping make it cost prohibitive to return.

Your truing stand look great!

[nfmisso]

You need to be very very carefully with wind up on DB spokes. In the tensioning stage and beyond, tighten ½ turn and release ¼ turn. Make sure the nipples are well lubricated, so that they turn smoothly against the rim.

The Rhyno will give you some trouble: you have to choose between even spoke tension and a true wheel - you can't get both with it. The Sun CR-18 rims are similar. My experience is that the Sun rims are not quite as flat and round as Velocity rims.

[Painkiller]

I think he will be alright with the butted spokes, it is the bladed spokes to stay away from for a newbie as far as twisting or windup is of concern.

[nfmisso]

(04-23-2014, 06:58 PM)painkiller Wrote:  I think he will be alright with the butted spokes, it is the bladed spokes to stay away from for a newbie as far as twisting or windup is of concern.

Some builders prefer the bladed ones, because they can see the wind up, and thus remove it.

I am sticking with Wheelsmith SS14 and DH13 spokes

[TrailShredder]

(04-23-2014, 06:55 PM)nfmisso Wrote:  You need to be very very carefully with wind up on DB spokes. In the tensioning stage and beyond, tighten ½ turn and release ¼ turn. Make sure the nipples are well lubricated, so that they turn smoothly against the rim.

Awesome, that's what I've read (and watched in the better videos) for all spokes... which is what also drew me away from a machine built cheapy off Amazon/eBay.

Do these numbers look right? Is the prowheelbuilder calc accurate vs others?
[attachment=5028]
Thanks again!

[nfmisso]

Spocalc Express gets 264.8 and 263.4 which is pretty close, a millimeter either way is not going to kill things.

61mm are awfully large flanges.

[TrailShredder]

Nigel, what size spokes do you recommend then? What if only even lengths are available?

Are large flanges good or bad? I was under the impression it's stronger...pro's and cons?

I went with someone recommending (unfortunately without researching more and getting second opinions from experienced builders like you) this m529, a Sun Inferno 27 and DT Swiss Comp spokes.

At my budget and trolling web deals it's the M529 / Rhyno / Sapim Race.

[nfmisso]

I would probably go with 264 on both sides if only even lengths were offered. 265 and 263 if odd lengths are a choice.
DB14 264
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-2-0-264mm-Silver-Spokes/dp/B00GL5KO40/
DB14 263
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-2-0-263mm-Silver-Spokes/dp/B001CJVLL0/
DB14 265
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-2-0-265mm-Silver-Spokes/dp/B001CK0R0K/

And SS14 - which is what I'd use on most wheels, if the spoke count is high enough for the application. If it is border line in my opinion, I go with DH13 spokes, which are much more expensive.
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-2-0-263mm-Silver-Spokes/dp/B001CK2NDO/
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-2-0-265mm-Silver-Spokes/dp/B001CJVLC4/

And nipples
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-12mm-Silver-Brass-Nipples/dp/B001PT85HU/
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-Brass-Nipples-Silver-20x12mm/dp/B000C190L2/
I purchase 500 at a time.

Make sure that you get a spoke wrench that properly fits the brand of nipples you are using - there are variations.

large flange vs low flange - there are pros and cons both ways; but nothing major either way - especially with only 32 or 36 spokes. My favorite hubs (price/performance - paved surfaces only) are Wheelmaster's 40H tandem hubs - very inexpensive, beefy 14mm axle on the rear, and 40 spokes. The are large flange, just to be able to have 20 well supported spoke holes per flange.

I purchase most of my bike items through Amazon.

[jtj]

(04-25-2014, 11:23 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  I would probably go with 264 on both sides if only even lengths were offered.  265 and 263 if odd lengths are a choice.  
DB14 264
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-2-0-264mm-Silver-Spokes/dp/B00GL5KO40/
DB14 263
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-2-0-263mm-Silver-Spokes/dp/B001CJVLL0/
DB14 265
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-2-0-265mm-Silver-Spokes/dp/B001CK0R0K/

And SS14 - which is what I'd use on most wheels, if the spoke count is high enough for the application.  If it is border line in my opinion, I go with DH13 spokes, which are much more expensive.
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-2-0-263mm-Silver-Spokes/dp/B001CK2NDO/
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-2-0-265mm-Silver-Spokes/dp/B001CJVLC4/

And nipples
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-12mm-Silver-Brass-Nipples/dp/B001PT85HU/
http://www.amazon.com/Wheelsmith-Brass-Nipples-Silver-20x12mm/dp/B000C190L2/
I purchase 500 at a time.

Make sure that you get a spoke wrench that properly fits the brand of nipples you are using - there are variations.

large flange vs low flange - there are pros and cons both ways; but nothing major either way - especially with only 32 or 36 spokes.  My favorite hubs (price/performance - paved surfaces only) are Wheelmaster's 40H tandem hubs - very inexpensive, beefy 14mm axle on the rear, and 40 spokes.  The are large flange, just to be able to have 20 well supported spoke holes per flange.

I purchase most of my bike items through Amazon.

You do need a 2 mm difference in sp length. The integrity of the wheel will be afected by using the same lenght on both sides of a rr wheel. True the wheel at very low tension in order to deal w/ the imperfections of the rim while you can see them w/ out spoke tension. By the way I used to use purple loktite (a small drop on the back-side of the nipple b4 tension, then trow in the min level of tension).
You are unsure of spoke length - maybe lace the wheel and throw some tension into it to make sure the lengths are going to work.
At any rate,
get the dish set at a fairly early stage. If you get stuke using the same length on both sides the tension will be potentially very high on the free wheel/casette side. In the end game with so much tension you will not be able to pull the wheel to centre if needs be and you would prefer not to loosen the non
freewheel side to accomplish that task.
By the way 14g DT are really the way to go. Weight saved is minimul and more than lost by a wheel that will not last as long and will be prone to breaking spokes on the free wheel side. 15g dbl butted - maybe I say maybe on the front wheel of a critirum course race bike riden by a 120 lb racer who knows how to ride a bike (not all racer's ride a bike with skill. some are bullies w/ their bike).
After you throw your first tension in you are going to pull the parrellel spokes. Do this at least four times during the building process. You want to take all the stretch out of the spokes b4 it is a wheel.
With the dbl butted 15g this will not be too much of a concern (the 14g streches, especially w/ the 700c).
I used to put the rim on a 'flat' table b4 building it but you should still inspect the rim b4 you build it. If there is a seious imperfection the retailer should take it back. If the retailer refuses, e-mail the rim manufacturer. No manufacturer wants a substandard product being used which was probably damaged in shipping anayway.
The up and down will need more tension to get perfectly true but the side to side should get true at low tension and the up and down at medium tension. Try to work in pairs - lossen one side tightren the other: if your pulling it down, pull with an even # of spokes same if your pushing it out away from the hub.
Because you took care of the imperfections early on - as you add tension it will be the same spots that you dealt with early asserting their imperfection later. The wheel would have failed in those spots if you had not dealt w/ the imperfection early, that is the difference between a real hand built wheel and a machine built wheel.
Keep it wReal-Right.