Best bicycle drivetrain

[ichitan]

The best bicycle drivetrain, in my opinion, uses a pinion gearbox.

Most people use belt drives with them, but chains can be used. Belt drives last longer, and don't require oil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoWpFLfAZq4

A Korean startup is planning to make a less expensive competitor to the pinion gearbox. When they are released, I will be checking them out.

[Sybian]

(10-26-2023, 06:07 AM)ichitan Wrote:  The best bicycle drivetrain, in my opinion, uses a pinion gearbox.

Most people use belt drives with them, but chains can be used. Belt drives last longer, and don't require oil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoWpFLfAZq4

A Korean startup is planning to make a less expensive competitor to the pinion gearbox. When they are released, I will be checking them out.

Is your "my opinion" based on real world riding experience or conjecture? If you have not ridden a bike utilizing this means of propulsion then please find a bike to ride so that we may have an actual first-hand educated opinion and not one based on second, third, or fourth-hand information. Videos are wonderful (nowadays, unfortunately also self-serving an individual's need for attention/exposure, and often hyping something for personal/business gains), but often do not provide what I need to know. I either ride it and know what is in relation to my needs (not others, I cannot predict what someone else might or might not feel is: adequate, necessary, or just a flight of fancy); or I am in ignorance and I would not know if not having used said equipment, system or design is better, worse, or comparable to existing designs. Using a pinion gear is nothing new; about 125 years old relating to shaft drives.

[ichitan]

I don't own a bike with a Pinion gearbox.

Recently I spent some time with bikepackers traveling around the world on bikes with Pinion gearboxes. They had done 25,000 km, and the gearboxes were still like new.

If you use cassettes or freewheels, parts need replacing regularly. The only thing that needs to be replaced in a Pinion gearbox, is the oil.

These bikes with pinion gearboxes, were also stronger than ordinary bikes. The frames were strong. More importantly, the wheels were strong. In 25,000 km, the frames and wheels had not broken. I met another bikepacker a couple of weeks earlier, riding a more ordinary bike. He had replaced wheels, hubs, and spokes. He carried spare spokes with him, because they broke often.

When you travel for a long time, you want a strong bike that will not break.

The strong bikes with Pinion gearboxes were bought in Germany.

Pinion gearboxes come with a five year warranty. Almost nobody sends them back for repairs under warranty, because they very rarely break. If yours was one of the rare ones that did break, and they did repair it, you get an additional two years warranty. They can give these warranties, because the gearboxes are very strong, and very rarely break.

I believe the number of bike manufacturers using Pinion gearboxes will increase greatly during coming years, because they are really good.

If you, or anyone else reading this, comes across a bike with a Pinion gearbox, check it out.

[GirishH]

Hello Ichitan, thanks for providing that background information! :-)

I want to be honest and humble in admitting that I've only ridden about 20% of what those bikepackers have ridden. In some of the regions I've visited, it's a challenge just to find a spare tire, let alone a mechanic's shop. That's why I always carried essentials like spare tires, tubes, and basic tools with me. When it comes to more technologically advanced bicycles, I get even more apprehensive. Even though I haven't covered the extensive distances you've mentioned (not anywhere close to 25,000 km), I still prefer to stick with simple, basic bikes that can be repaired anywhere rather than something highly specialized.

Reading your impressive claims, it's hard not to wonder if you might be a sales or marketing representative for Pinion Gearbox! :-)

Interestingly, it's not just bike/bike parts that break. But many a time, external factors break things on bikes. My riding buddy was stuck in Ecuador for a month because his Surly's derailleur hanger broke into two pieces and that's a custom piece. I am reading a bit on the pinion gearbox, but despite their claims, if something breaks I am sure I will be stuck for a good amount of time.

I am reading the following review on Bikepacking and then might change my mind after some real life use..:-)

https://bikepacking.com/gear/pinion-gearbox-review/

(10-27-2023, 08:21 AM)ichitan Wrote:  I don't own a bike with a Pinion gearbox.

Recently I spent some time with bikepackers traveling around the world on bikes with Pinion gearboxes. They had done 25,000 km, and the gearboxes were still like new.

If you use cassettes or freewheels, parts need replacing regularly. The only thing that needs to be replaced in a Pinion gearbox, is the oil.

These bikes with pinion gearboxes, were also stronger than ordinary bikes. The frames were strong. More importantly, the wheels were strong. In 25,000 km, the frames and wheels had not broken. I met another bikepacker a couple of weeks earlier, riding a more ordinary bike. He had replaced wheels, hubs, and spokes. He carried spare spokes with him, because they broke often.

When you travel for a long time, you want a strong bike that will not break.

The strong bikes with Pinion gearboxes were bought in Germany.

Pinion gearboxes come with a five year warranty. Almost nobody sends them back for repairs under warranty, because they very rarely break. If yours was one of the rare ones that did break, and they did repair it, you get an additional two years warranty. They can give these warranties, because the gearboxes are very strong, and very rarely break.

I believe the number of bike manufacturers using Pinion gearboxes will increase greatly during coming years, because they are really good.

If you, or anyone else reading this, comes across a bike with a Pinion gearbox, check it out.

[ichitan]

(10-27-2023, 11:17 AM)GirishH Wrote:  Reading your impressive claims, it's hard not to wonder if you might be a sales or marketing representative for Pinion Gearbox! :-)

I am not a sales or marketing representative for any company.

Have a look on the internet for information on Pinion gearboxes.

While you are bikepacking, you are likely to meet other bikepackers with Pinion gearboxes. Have a look at their bikes, and talk to them about their bikes. When you know about Pinion gearboxes, you will agree with me.

This family went to Germany and bought the best bikes they could find. With the money they spent on bikes for the family, they could have bought a new car. Now they have a relatively trouble free trip bikepacking around the world. They will probably keep the Pinion gearbox bikes for the rest of their lives, and the Pinion gearboxes will probably never fail.

[ReapThaWhirlwind]

Imagine shredding on a pinion gearbox.

Wow. Maybe maybe maybe. Some day in the future.

I cherish my good ol' Dura Ace 9/10 speed cassettes, oval ring, and KMC chain.

[ichitan]

(10-27-2023, 11:38 PM)ReapThaWhirlwind Wrote:  Imagine shredding on a pinion gearbox.

Wow. Maybe maybe maybe. Some day in the future.

I cherish my good ol' Dura Ace 9/10 speed cassettes, oval ring, and KMC chain.

I believe a Pinion gearbox would be better than a derailleur and cassette. Pinion gearboxes come with various numbers of gears. Some have 18 gears. Which means there are smaller steps between gears, and you have more choices of gear ratios. You can also change up or down several gears at a time if you want.

My ideal bike, if money was no object, would be a full suspension mountain bike, with a Pinion gearbox.

[ichitan]

A lot of bike manufacturers make bikes which use Pinion gearboxes.

A lot of bikepackers use them, because they want something reliable, they can travel long distances on. That may be where you hear about Pinion gearboxes the most.

But Pinion gearboxes are put in many kinds of bikes, including mountain bikes.

You can even get Pinion gearboxes in recumbent bikes.

Because they are good, I believe a lot more bikes will use them in the future.

[enkei]

I imagine something like a pinion gearbox and belt drive would be fantastic for MTB in my neighbourhood. The local bike trails are in a former colliery, so it's not regular dirt. I guess it's coal and associated minerals, and they wear out drivetrains MUCH faster than regular dirt.

I can imagine there easily being a strong business case for spending the money on pinion/belt to avoid the eye-watering cost of replacing top-tier 1x MTB cassettes and chains every 2-3 months.

[Burhan]

The choice of the best bicycle drivetrain depends on your specific cycling needs and preferences. Drivetrains for bicycles vary based on factors such as the type of riding you do, terrain, budget, and personal preferences. Here are some of the most common types of bicycle drivetrains, each with its own advantages and considerations by Kyle

1. **Single-Speed or Fixed-Gear Drivetrain**: These drivetrains have only one gear, making them simple and low-maintenance. They are popular for urban commuting and track cycling. They provide a direct and efficient connection between the rider's pedaling and the wheel's rotation.

2. **Derailleur Drivetrain**: Derailleur drivetrains are the most common type on modern bicycles. They offer a wide range of gears, making them versatile for various terrains and riding styles. Common brands for derailleurs and shifters include Shimano, SRAM, and Campagnolo.

3. **Internal Gear Hub Drivetrain**: Internal gear hub systems are enclosed within the rear hub of the wheel, providing multiple gears. They are known for their low maintenance and clean appearance. Brands like Shimano and Rohloff produce internal gear hubs.

4. **Belt Drive Drivetrain**: Belt drives are becoming more popular, especially for urban and commuter bikes. They use a toothed belt instead of a chain, offering low maintenance and a smooth, quiet ride.

5. **Electronic Drivetrain**: Electronic drivetrains, such as Shimano Di2 or SRAM eTap, use electronic shifting for precise and reliable gear changes. They are often found on high-end road and mountain bikes.

6. **Gravel and Adventure Drivetrain**: Gravel and adventure bikes may have drivetrains optimized for off-road and mixed-terrain riding. These drivetrains often have a wider gear range and durability for challenging conditions.

7. **Mountain Bike Drivetrain**: Mountain bike drivetrains are designed for rugged terrain. They often have a wide gear range and features like clutch derailleurs to prevent chain drops.

The best drivetrain for you depends on the type of riding you do, your budget, and your personal preferences. Consider factors such as gear range, maintenance requirements, weight, and compatibility with your bike frame. It's a good idea to test ride bikes with different drivetrains to see which one feels the most comfortable and efficient for your riding style. Additionally, consult with a knowledgeable bike shop or a professional bike fitter for personalized advice.

[ichitan]

(11-01-2023, 03:29 AM)Burhan Wrote:  The choice of the best bicycle drivetrain depends on your specific cycling needs and preferences.

I agree, but:

Let's imagine you won lottery, and money was no object. Let's imagine you decide to go out and buy a new bike. Let's imagine you want to buy the best bike available. What would it be?

[Painkiller]

(11-01-2023, 11:41 AM)ichitan Wrote:  

(11-01-2023, 03:29 AM)Burhan Wrote:  The choice of the best bicycle drivetrain depends on your specific cycling needs and preferences.

I agree, but:

Let's imagine you won lottery, and money was no object. Let's imagine you decide to go out and buy a new bike. Let's imagine you want to buy the best bike available. What would it be?

Exactly what I already have

[ichitan]

I have recently discovered there is another similar gearbox. It only has 9 gears. It had not been out as long, so people have not ridden bikes with these gearboxes many thousands of miles. It is probably good.

The New Effigear Mimic 9-Speed.

There are also other gearboxes being developed.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/effigear-mimic-9-speed-gearbox/

[SPINMAN]

(11-01-2023, 03:29 AM)Burhan Wrote:  The choice of the best bicycle drivetrain depends on your specific cycling needs and preferences. Drivetrains for bicycles vary based on factors such as the type of riding you do, terrain, budget, and personal preferences. Here are some of the most common types of bicycle drivetrains, each with its own advantages and considerations by Kyle

1. **Single-Speed or Fixed-Gear Drivetrain**: These drivetrains have only one gear, making them simple and low-maintenance. They are popular for urban commuting and track cycling. They provide a direct and efficient connection between the rider's pedaling and the wheel's rotation.

2. **Derailleur Drivetrain**: Derailleur drivetrains are the most common type on modern bicycles. They offer a wide range of gears, making them versatile for various terrains and riding styles. Common brands for derailleurs and shifters include Shimano, SRAM, and Campagnolo.

3. **Internal Gear Hub Drivetrain**: Internal gear hub systems are enclosed within the rear hub of the wheel, providing multiple gears. They are known for their low maintenance and clean appearance. Brands like Shimano and Rohloff produce internal gear hubs.

4. **Belt Drive Drivetrain**: Belt drives are becoming more popular, especially for urban and commuter bikes. They use a toothed belt instead of a chain, offering low maintenance and a smooth, quiet ride.

5. **Electronic Drivetrain**: Electronic drivetrains, such as Shimano Di2 or SRAM eTap, use electronic shifting for precise and reliable gear changes. They are often found on high-end road and mountain bikes.

6. **Gravel and Adventure Drivetrain**: Gravel and adventure bikes may have drivetrains optimized for off-road and mixed-terrain riding. These drivetrains often have a wider gear range and durability for challenging conditions.

7. **Mountain Bike Drivetrain**: Mountain bike drivetrains are designed for rugged terrain. They often have a wide gear range and features like clutch derailleurs to prevent chain drops.

The best drivetrain for you depends on the type of riding you do, your budget, and your personal preferences. Consider factors such as gear range, maintenance requirements, weight, and compatibility with your bike frame. It's a good idea to test ride bikes with different drivetrains to see which one feels the most comfortable and efficient for your riding style. Additionally, consult with a knowledgeable bike shop or a professional bike fitter for personalized advice.

I agree, but match that pinion drive with a quality aluminum or titanium frame, and that might be the last human powered bike I would own.

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(11-03-2023, 08:45 AM)ichitan Wrote:  I have recently discovered there is another similar gearbox. It only has 9 gears. It had not been out as long, so people have not ridden bikes with these gearboxes many thousands of miles. It is probably good.

The New Effigear Mimic 9-Speed.

There are also other gearboxes being developed.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/effigear-mimic-9-speed-gearbox/

I've seen four manufacturers now for gearbox developers. One question is adaptability. The other is it worth losing 5-6% efficiency in pedaling power. Losing 15 watts could be huge trying to keep up with the group doing 250-350 watts. I'm not racing and It might only be 1-2 miles an hour, but over 60-75 mile ride, that extra effort could be draining.

[GirishH]

I too feel like I have the best bike available even though others might think otherwise..:-)

Not sure the "best bike" in the market or category will bring me same amount of joy, enjoyment as much this bike which I bought with hard-earned sweat (and not lottery money) or was hand built..

Again, it's philosophical but also emotional and so many other factors..

(11-01-2023, 01:28 PM)Painkiller Wrote:  

(11-01-2023, 11:41 AM)ichitan Wrote:  

(11-01-2023, 03:29 AM)Burhan Wrote:  The choice of the best bicycle drivetrain depends on your specific cycling needs and preferences.

I agree, but:

Let's imagine you won lottery, and money was no object. Let's imagine you decide to go out and buy a new bike. Let's imagine you want to buy the best bike available. What would it be?

Exactly what I already have

[Frankly]

(10-27-2023, 11:38 PM)ReapThaWhirlwind Wrote:  Imagine shredding on a pinion gearbox.

Wow. Maybe maybe maybe. Some day in the future.

I cherish my good ol' Dura Ace 9/10 speed cassettes, oval ring, and KMC chain.

Well I tend to be with you. But I suppose that is because light internally geared hubs are rare and bikes have to be designed specifically for them and the only bikes I have seen designed for internal gears are touring bikes. Also all of the things like the twist shifters tend to be designed to be used for touring.

I do like the idea of the 12 speed or whatever it is British (I think)) model but it is is as expensive as possible. Shimano makes a very cheap and equally unbreakable model that is fairly cheap but again everything is designed for touring.

I believe that they should remember that fast commuting and sports riding needs light and reliable. That means something like properly spaced (about) 14 speeds and under 22 lbs all up.

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I like the idea of the Rohloff. It still needs a special frame though because the shifting is pull, pull in each direction. So you need inner and outer cable directors to the right side chain stay. Also the Rohloff has 14 gears so it more accurately matches a sports riding specialty. I don't know the width of the hub though and it does have lots of spokes .