Need Help with Vintage Bianchi ID and Value

[alixr89]

Hey I'm new here, hopefully it's ok to do this -- I kind of want to piggyback off of OP's question. I have been on the hunt for an extra small vintage Bianchi frame in Celeste (I'm 5'2 and need a 49cm frame) and it's been a challenge as the smaller vintage frames are pretty rare. I finally found this one on ebay that has clearly been restored -- the paint job appears to be so heavy that serial numbers are obscured. The seller said it's a 1984 Barcelona Specialissima but I've had people in a Facebook group tell me that isn't correct, that it's mislabeled, and that he applied different Bianchi decals when he restored it. I don't really care if it's most likely that I was ripped off because the small sized frame alone is worth a lot to me personally but I am curious about the actual model and it's worth. Can anyone help? Photos of the original listing are attached. Seller listed at $1,396 and accepted my offer of $1,000. If you go through the photos you'll also see his response to me questioning the model after hearing from people on Facebook. I appreciate any insight from you all!

Text translated from the original listing which was written in Italian:
English:
"for foreign friends I ship all over the world, ask for a quote. europe €80. asia and america €100 australia150 Hello everyone, in this auction I propose an excellent vintage frame, it is a very rare Bianchi built around 1984, the frame is of the highest range, detailed description follows: steel frame with Bianchi logo engraved in the saddle node and in the fork head, features white dropouts with adjusters and reinforced fork. measurements center center vertical cm 49.5x52 cm horizontal center center head tube length 9.5cm chainstay width 127mm seat tube diameter 27.2mm 28 wheel holder The frame is straight and healthy, it has been professionally restored by sandblasting it, checking its flatness on a template bench. The chassis was painted in a light blue livery. with decals compliant with the original, all protected by transparent varnish. Mark visible in the last photo. highlighted by a red arrow, a micro drop of brass/paint, look at the detail in the photo, it's a trifle, but I want to point it out practically invisible…. In the sun the paint shines intensely. Now the frame is ready to assemble. I supply specific brake bushings and cable gland plate. Look carefully at the photos and buy what you see. Collection at my home is welcome, alternatively I ship with the Italian post office, shipping costs include the rate, packaging and labor, it is ready to assemble, wishing everyone happiness and prosperity I greet you and for those who aim for the best to win. I ACCEPT PROPOSALS, I RESPOND TO ALL sales formula seen and liked without guarantee/return."

Italian:
"for foreign friends I ship all over the world, ask for a quote. europe 80 €. asia and america 100 € australia150 Salve a tutti in quest'asta vi propongo un ottimo telaio vintage, è un rarissimo Bianchi
costruito nel 1984 circa, il telaio è di altissima gamma, segue descrizione dettagliata:
telaio in acciaio con logo Bianchi inciso nel nodo sella e nella testa forcella, monta forcellini bianchi con registri e forcella rinforzata. misure centro centro verticale cm 49.5x52 cm orizzontale centro
centro lunghezza tubo sterzo 9.5cm larghezza carro 127mm diametro tubo sella 27.2mm porta rote da 28
Il telaio è dritto e sano, è stato restaurato professionalmente sabbiandolo, controllandone la planarità su banco dima. Il telaio è stato verniciato in livrea celeste bianchi. con decal conformi all'originale, il tutto protetto da vernice trasparente. Segnalo visibile nell'ultima foto. evidenziato da una freccia rossa una micro goccia di ottone/vernice osservate il dettaglio in foto, è un inezia, ma voglio segnalarla
praticamente invisibile…. Al sole la vernice brilla intensamente. Ora il telaio è pronto da montare. fornisco bussole freni specifiche e piastrina passafili. Osservate bene le foto comperate ciò che vedete.
è gradito ritiro al mio domicilio, in alternativa spedisco con poste italiane le spese di spedizione comprendono la tariffa, l'imballo e la manodopera, è pronto da montare, augurando a tutti felicità e prosperità vi saluto e per chi punta che vinca il migliore. ACCETTO PROPOSTE, RISPONDO A TUTTI vendita formula vista e piaciuta senza garanzia/reso."

   
   

[Jesper]

Unfortunately, size does not mean rare, but if you want a certain size and cannot find another in your size you are stuck with paying what a seller wants. Generally, smaller frames and extra large frames sell for a little less due to lower demand. Value should be based on quality of workmanship, frame tubing type (I would expect Columbus "SL" or "SLX" for a Specialissma), and of course condition. Rarity based on size is not able to be verified since you do not know how many were made.
I find it odd that if it is a "Specialissima" frame why there is no chroming. Generally that model label is given the fancier frames with chromed fork/crown, lugs, driveside or both chainstays, drop-puts, and seat stay caps. All those areas may not be chromed, but generally on a frame of that level the driveside stay, drop-outs, and fork crown would be chromed. I am not a Bianchi expert, but no chrome is odd unless the "restoration" (a true restoration would have had any damaged chrome removed and replated) consisted of chrome removal and just painted over. Without seeing the original livery I would not know what you have. If there is a serial number/date code on it you might be able to verify the model/year. Obviously, if you look at a 1984 Bianchi catalog you can compare the decal design to see if it matches (I have not checked it).
Also seems odd that for a "restoration" no tubing (Columbus) decal was applied.
Probably the only way to determine the model is by its frame geometry. I am suspect of the fork crown for that model/year, but again I would need to check a known Specialissima of the suggested vintage. Also, frame geometries can cross over on models, with the main difference being tubing type, details, and groupset if sold as a complete bike. One good indicator of a race bike of that era would be the length of the chainstays. Top level pro bikes were 40-41cm (center BB to center of drop-out). Touring frames will have longer stays 43cm or so.
You can verify the reinforced steerer tube by looking through it and seeing 5 helical ridges which go from the bottom to half way up. If it does not have those ridges then it is not the higher Columbus tube set and definitely not a Specialissima model. You can also look in the bottom bracket shell to see it ant of the main tubes have any ridges which would indicate an "SLX" tubed frame.
I won't knock you for what you paid (I find the asking price way over the top), but for a bare frame of dubious origin (regardless of condition) the seller is making claims that need to be verified if asking that price. It should have at least been furnished with a pantographed part or two which would have been stock on that model if bought as a complete bike.
All in all you have a good Bianchi frame, but of what model who knows.
I can ask some others who have a little more knowledge on that marque, but they are going to raise the same questions.
If you cannot see a serial number it may be that there is not one (not uncommon) regardless of the paint. More often Italian builders would stamp the BB shell with the frame size and/or makers mark, but no serial number. Numbers can also be found on the head tube, seat tube, or rear drop-out depending on maker and vintage.

[Jesper]

@alixr89 By any chance have checked the bottom bracket shell width? 70mm would be Italian built since I do not believe the Japanese made frames used Italian BB's, but I am often mistaken. If 68mm it would suggest Japanese origin, but being that you obtained it from Italy I would be inclined to say Italian built.
I did find that they had serial numbers for Japan made bikes, still checking on Italian ones.
Personally, I would recommend you post your frame on Bikeforums with your own photos. Take pics off all frame details: bottom of BB shell, lugs, engravings, and any markings that you see. They have a glut of Bianchi folks there who I believe would be able to quickly confirm whether or not it is a Specialissima model. I would post it there for you, but I do not have an account since there is a lot of childish comments posted on that sight as evidenced by a recent post I had a friend do for me. There is no cost for their membership unless you want premium account (unfortunately, paying does not filter out the juvenile behavior).

[alixr89]

(11-10-2023, 06:52 PM)Jesper Wrote:  post your frame on Bikeforums with your own photos. Take pics off all frame details: bottom of BB shell, lugs, engravings, and any markings that you s

Thanks for your advice! Still waiting on the frame to arrive but I will inspect it and take pics to post in other forums -- I actually tried posting this in Bikeforums initially but because i was a new user i couldn't post? or they wanted me to have 10 posts before adding pictures or something. idk exactly but it was confusing and i didn't like it there.

[enkei]

As others more expert than I have pointed out, there are many reasons to be suspicious of the seller's claims. Certainly, tt is highly unusual to sell an allegedly top-of-the-range frame like this with no mention whatsoever of what specification tube set was used.

Having studied the original eBay listing, it looks at the very least like a sub-par 'restoration'. Shiny, yes. Expert, no.

When you receive the frameset, in addition to the tips offered above, you could weigh the frameset. That will give some idea of whether or not it is the class of tube set it is supposed to be.

Hopefully, you've ended up with a very nice frame in the size you need that just needs a bit of expert attention to make it right.