What's better, rear wheel suspension or seat suspension?

[ichitan]

What is better, rear wheel suspension or seat suspension?

I decided to try seat suspension, and see what I think.

If you try the type of seat suspension which slides up and down inside the seat post, you realize the angle is wrong, making the suspension not very good.

Most other types of seat suspension have only a small range of movement, and are expensive.

So I made the seat suspension shown in the picture. This was much less expensive than the expensive seat post suspension systems.

   

My first impression, after only a short time, is that seat suspension is good. Sometimes we may have a different idea after using something for a long time. See what I think in the future.

If I buy another bike in the future, I plan to go for the best value for money, which is likely be a hard tail. Then put a suspension seat post on it.

This is the first one I made. I may improve the seat post design.

This seat post works well. The seat does not bob up and down. When sitting on the seat, you put pressure down and back on the seat post. As a result, the bottom of the seat post, presses forward against the inside of the spring, creating a little friction, which prevents bobbing.

[Jesper]

(07-13-2022, 08:48 AM)ichitan Wrote:  What is better, rear wheel suspension or seat suspension?

I decided to try seat suspension, and see what I think.

If you try the type of seat suspension which slides up and down inside the seat post, you realize the angle is wrong, making the suspension not very good.

Most other types of seat suspension have only a small range of movement, and are expensive.

So I made the seat suspension shown in the picture. This was much less expensive than the expensive seat post suspension systems.



My first impression, after only a short time, is that seat suspension is good. Sometimes we may have a different idea after using something for a long time. See what I think in the future.

If I buy another bike in the future, I plan to go for the best value for money, which is likely be a hard tail. Then put a suspension seat post on it.

This is the first one I made. I may improve the seat post design.

This seat post works well. The seat does not bob up and down. When sitting on the seat, you put pressure down and back on the seat post. As a result, the bottom of the seat post, presses forward against the inside of the spring, creating a little friction, which prevents bobbing.

Seat post suspension is essentially a comfort issue whereas wheel suspension plays into handling and performance characteristics of the bike (keeping better wheel traction, etc.). The frame suspension certainly helps with the comfort to a certain degree, but depending on the bike type and intended use the frame suspension is much less about comfort than performance. That is part of the reason for less movement range for a seat post over the frame suspension; the post is there just to absorb road shock, whereas the frame suspension is designed to keep the tire in contact with the ground and also to provide shock absorbency as well.

I like your design and understand what you meant regarding the post angle on a standard production suspension post. There are high quality posts where the angle really doesn't affect the movement, but they need to be kept clean and require their own preventative maintenance for good quality operation; and as you stated they aren't cheap.

The suspension post is similar in function to a suspension handlebar stem in that it also helps with comfort, but does not really change the actual performance of the bike. As with all suspension designs you are adding significant weight to achieve a greater level of comfort. So far for me that only means having a saddle with a little more cushion and/or using a more shock absorbent grip tape on my bar. My older brother just went to a suspension post (he's still athletic, but in his 60s with a bad back), and he praises its effect by being able to ride longer with less discomfort.

[ReapThaWhirlwind]

Have considered trying seat suspension myself, with an official suspension seat post; but I've been riding rigid almost 2 years now so I've become so used to it that I don't really notice the bumps anymore.

[ichitan]

If I only ever rode on smooth roads, I would consider suspension unnecessary. But I like to be adventurous, and ride on rough tracks. A person could look after their bike well, and not have fun fun fun.

Like has been said, suspension results in a more comfortable ride.

It is also less harsh on the bike. I have broken spokes and axles on a number of bikes. Suspension reduces these breakages.

There are those who want the best because they use their bikes in competition. There are those who want the best, because they push their bikes to the limit. There are those who want the best, because they can afford it. I like to have a decent bike at a not-too-expensive price. There are many others who want a decent bike at a reasonable price.

I have an idea to improve seat post suspension design above, but I may not make it for some time, as this design works well.

[ichitan]

When a bike has rear suspension, one of the issues to deal with is bobbing up and down when you pedal. Some of the effort you put into peddling, is lost to bobbing, so the bike goes slower.

When you have seat suspension on a hard tail, the bike does not bob. However, the seat may bob. With my design, the seat does not bob, because of the friction between the front of the bottom of the seat post, and the spring.

There would be some situations where a hard tail with seat suspension, would be faster than a bike with rear wheel suspension, because of the bobbing.

Some of the more expensive bikes use a shock absorber as part of the rear suspension, to minimize bobbing.

[ichitan]

While most people will buy manufactured accessories for their bike, there may be a small number of people who decide to make their own seat suspension after seeing this.

A good suspension system has preload. That is the spring is compressed a little before you even get on the bike. Manufactured suspension seat posts normally have some way of setting preload.

My design has preload, but it is difficult to set. You need to push the seat down on the spring as far as you can, then push down the front seat post, and lock it in the low position.

[ReapThaWhirlwind]

Odd you would have all these fabricating skill and ask such a question not knowing which is greater.

Rear suspension is going to be greater because it absorbs the shock as it's going into the frame. Seat suspension only absorbs the shock you feel after it's reached through the frame, and the frame had to absorb all that energy. If it's all about comfort, you'd want to run all three (rear, seat, and front).

[ichitan]

My first attempt to set the preload was just leaning down on the seat.

Since then I have put a rope through over the top of the seat post and under the seat, and pulled the spring down. I then tapped down the front seat post, and locked it in position.

[Jesper]

(07-26-2022, 03:34 PM)ichitan Wrote:  My first attempt to set the preload was just leaning down on the seat.

Since then I have put a rope through over the top of the seat post and under the seat, and pulled the spring down. I then tapped down the front seat post, and locked it in position.

Maybe this will help you with your next fabrication.

Here is an example of a very early suspension saddle. It may be from an early moped or scooter, but is was mounted on a bicycle.

I had thought of a similar design using a new style threadless bar stem with a coil spring incorporated into the front pivot point, but only way to adjust tension (w/o further complicating the design) would be using a spring with lower or higher load rating. Also, I am not sure as to the strength of the alloy stem when used for a seat post component even though they are designed for high stresses.

   
   

[ichitan]

(08-18-2022, 12:54 PM)Jesper Wrote:  Here is an example of a very early suspension saddle. It may be from an early moped or scooter, but is was mounted on a bicycle.

I had thought of a similar design using a new style threadless bar stem with a coil spring incorporated into the front pivot point, but only way to adjust tension (w/o further complicating the design) would be using a spring with lower or higher load rating. Also, I am not sure as to the strength of the alloy stem when used for a seat post component even though they are designed for high stresses.

That is quite a good design. I have thought about something like this. One of the disadvantages with my design is, it can only be used for taller people. So a lot of cyclists could not use it. This design could be used for cyclists with a much greater range of heights. If built right, it would also be fairly light weight, which is important on bicycles.

You can get strong seat posts, which would be strong enough for this.

You could design it so any seat can be attached on top, so people could use it with their preferred seat.

The spring where it is is good. You could experiment with the spring back a bit and forward a bit, to get more or less range of movement, and more or less stiffness. You could consider making it so it is adjustable, forwards and backwards, so individual riders can adjust it how they want.

You could experiment with other things. For example, you could use a block or rubber instead of the spring.

I believe if somebody made a modern version of something like this commercially, it would sell.

If you want to think about a radical design, design one which uses an air bag. So you can increase or decrease the pressure. Air is light, so if you came up with a clever design, it could be light weight.

[ichitan]

If any readers want to seriously make something like this.

   

A suitable spring might be a valve spring from a motor. If you know anybody trashing a motor, you might want to ask if you can remove one or more valve springs.

A block of rubber might also work well. If you know a place that trashes truck or tractor tires, you might want to ask if you can cut some blocks of rubber from a tire that is being trashed. You might want several, so you can try different shapes and sizes.

If you experiment, you might come up with a good design.

[ichitan]

I made this suspension seat post some time ago to find out what it would be like. So what so I think of it after using it?

   

How well does it work?

It works well. It has a longer range of movement than most suspension seatposts you can buy online. It was much less expensive to make this, than buying one online.

Is having a suspension seatpost like this a good idea?

It depends on how you use your bike. If you want to just cruise around, not going very fast, and not going very far, it is nice. If you want to ride your bike at maximum speed, and go the maximum distance, it is a bad idea. It adds weight to the bike, which results in the bike going slower.

What's better, rear wheel suspension or seat suspension?

Rear wheel suspension. To get the best performance out of your bike, you need the seat at the optimum height. With seat suspension, the seat height changes, and you don't get maximum performance from peddling.

Will I ever make another one?

Probably not. But if I did, i would focus on making a lighter design. It is normally enough to have a seat with decent springs on it.

[froze]

It depends on the type of riding you're doing. If your ride off road a lot and the going gets tough you want a full rear suspension; if not, then all you need is a good quality seatpost suspension.

I think the best seatpost suspension system for road and gravel is the Redshift Sports ShockStop Suspension seatpost, a bit expensive but you can adjust the action on it externally, and even adjust it for your body weight internally by adding or taking away a spring. Plus it doesn't look bulky. I have one on my touring bike, and I really like it, it takes the shock off my arse when riding and I arrive at designations less fatigued than before.

On that touring bike I also went with the Redshift Sports ShockStop stem, this takes a lot of jarring off the hands and arms.

That stuff is made for road, gravel, and dirt roads, it's not designed for rough off-road use, there isn't enough capability for that.