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Poll: Dork disc - remove it or keep it?
Remove
Keep
Mixed
 
 
Dork disc - remove it or keep it?
#1
Helllo and good morning.
This fun question is often discussed or brought up. But I want to see your votes and hear your thoughts.

Some of my less bike-savvy people have no clue about these plastic discs. "Whaat? I never thought about it," said someone from the office. He has biked to work with his Trek for at least two years. His dork disc has turned light yellow, yuck.

I left it on my commuter bike cuz I'm lazy Big Grin

random photo from flickr


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#2
I'm mixed on this subject. If doing a true restoration, it stays; of course you want one that is not torn up, "yellowed", rusted, etc. If upgrading/modifying it is gone, assuming there will be a properly adjusted derailleur.
I don't mind the chromed steel or alloy ones as much as the plastic; but the plastic discs can look pretty cool if painted to match or contrast with the frame color.
I do like a lot a bikes with the chainring guards, some add a nice aesthetic touch, while also having a functional purpose; especially on the commuter/cruiser bikes.

Take care,
Jesper
Take care,
Jesper

"I am become Death, the destroyer of bicycles." NJS
  Reply
#3
I have similar opinion to Jesper's. The bottom line, if you have a good reason to take it off, then do it. But if you are biking down the hill with the chain sitting on the largest sprocket ... oh well. I would keep them on kids bikes. Some folks tend to get rid of everything. Which means the regular plastic rim reflectors, front handlebar and rear seatpost reflectors, bells, dork discs and all the rest. Handlebar bells are very useful for commuting and city rides.

Some chain guards on vintage bikes are the bomb.
  Reply
#4
Dork discs are a must for me. I had bought a new Specialized Fatboy. Had it for a few weeks just riding locally. Then I did a 17-miles run. On the return trip, I was riding up a hill, fifteen miles from home, and dropped down to first gear. The chain came off and wrapped around the axle. The dork disc did its job and protected the spokes or I might have been in for a wheel rebuild.

It took me about fifteen minutes to free the lubed chain because it was pulled tight around the chain ring. I only had my fingers to get the chain out. I carry tools but nothing that would have freed it.

When I got home I put the bike on my work stand. Checking the limit screws, I found that not only was the low limit not set right, allowing the chain to fall off onto the axle, but the high limit wouldn't even let the chain onto the small cog. I would have thought a professional bike shop, in business for 39 years, might have checked the limit screws. But I had a total of five botched jobs from that LBS, over three bikes, so I dumped them.

My dork disc is now three years old and has not turned yellow and neither has it cracked or come loose. I believe it's made from polycarbonate, a tough, resilient plastic. If you've got a good one, I see no sense in removing it, not even to save weight.
If I knew how to ride a bike properly, I'd do it every time.
  Reply
#5
(04-23-2020, 09:08 PM)CharleyFarley Wrote:  Checking the limit screws, I found that not only was the low limit not set right, allowing the chain to fall off onto the axle, but the high limit wouldn't even let the chain onto the small cog.

Tsk, tsk Charley;
Always check the new or "new to you" bike workings before a ride. Lesson learned on that one, eh! Sorry that the shop didn't do you right as they should have; I don't trust another with my safety, as I've watched "mechanics" using the wrong methods, tools, and diligence; a couple of which caused damage, another who almost did, and one who wouldn't do the basic maintenance work at all (cleaning a good chain!, wanted to sell me a new one though). My apologies to the great mechanics out there; I'm sure you don't always the credit you deserve for the time and effort it takes to do a good job, and hearing about others' nightmares makes you a little ill. Even then, I feel it is still the responsibility of the rider to verify that the work was done properly before heading out into the "wild"; short test ride around the block saves a lot of heartache (and road rash)!

Take care man, and thanks; I read your stuff regularly,
Jesper
Take care,
Jesper

"I am become Death, the destroyer of bicycles." NJS
  Reply
#6
(04-24-2020, 04:17 AM)Jesper Wrote:  
(04-23-2020, 09:08 PM)CharleyFarley Wrote:  Checking the limit screws, I found that not only was the low limit not set right, allowing the chain to fall off onto the axle, but the high limit wouldn't even let the chain onto the small cog.

Tsk, tsk Charley;
Always check the new or "new to you" bike workings before a ride. Lesson learned on that one, eh! Sorry that the shop didn't do you right as they should have; I don't trust another with my safety, as I've watched "mechanics" the using wrong methods, tools, and diligence; a couple of which caused damage, another who almost did, and one who wouldn't do the basic maintenance work at all (cleaning a good chain!, wanted to sell me a new one though). My apologies to the great mechanics out there; I'm sure you don't always the credit you deserve for the time and effort it takes to do a good job, and hearing about others' nightmares makes you a little ill. Even then, I feel it is still the responsibility of the rider to verify that the work was done properly before heading out into the "wild"; short test ride around the block saves a lot of heartache (and road rash)!

Take care man, and thanks; I read your stuff regularly,
Jesper
Yes, I sure did learn a lesson! And, like you, I prefer to know the job is done right by doing it myself.

I had just sold my motorcycle after many years of riding, and because I'm now retired, I didn't want to just sit around and get fat, so cycling became my new interest. I started with a new cruiser from the local LBS. After 1,000 miles the gears were playing up, and I knew nothing about derailleurs, so I took it to the bike shop. Their mechanic said that the chain is shot and they only last for 800 miles, so he put a new chain on, and straightened the derailleur bracket because it was hanging outboard (from new). A few weeks later the chain broke. I went back to the shop and bought a new chain. On comparing it side by side with the broken chain, I saw that it was eight inches short, so back to the shop for a longer chain. He said the cruiser has a longer frame and they had to add a piece to the new chain. I then realized that the piece they added on was where it broke; they must have pushed the pin in too far. So they made me a new chain and put it on.

The front brake on the bike was snatching, badly. They advised me to clean it with alcohol and, if necessary, 400 grade paper. I did both but it only lasted for a few brakings. I removed the wheel and tire and ran a micrometer around the rim but it was accurate all the way around. I pressed on the sides of the rim to see if there was a soft spot. Nothing! The only thing I could think of was dissimilar metals not being mixed properly at the factory. So back to bike shop to order some better rims. The mechanic said "All rim brakes snatch," and that I'd be wasting my money. I knew that wasn't true, so I ordered new rims, anyway, and it cured the problem. The mechanic also snapped at me for absolutely no reason. Apparently, he has a bit of a problem with that because he did it again at another time. It was the final straw that caused me to quit using them.

I bought a new Sun fat bike from them. It came with a hub gear but I noticed a hanger bracket for a derailleur, so I got them to customize it with a 7-speed derailleur. After getting the bike and taking it home, I found it wasn't really rideable because the first gear was like fourth. They assumed that the chain ring was matched to the derailleur. They didn't even ride the bike to test it after the conversion. So it had to go back to them and it took several weeks to get the correct chain ring.

After getting the bike back, while cleaning it, I noticed something odd about the rear disc brake caliper. It's supposed to sit flat on the mounting bracket, but they had lifted up one end and put a concave washer in. I'm no mechanic but I knew this was shade tree mechanic stuff. After I removed the washer, the caliper bit down on the rotor and prevented the wheel from turning. I saw that the mounting bracket was adjustable. It took me a minute to adjust it so the rotor ran freely. I didn't complain to them about this.

I later traded the cruiser and fat bike in for a new Specialized Fatboy. While cleaning it, I noticed the rear caliper bolts looked odd. Each bolt was too long so they put a 3/4" stack of washers on the bolts. More shade tree stuff! I removed the bolts and cut them down to the right length. I did contact the business owner on his Facebook page to tell him about the stacks of washers, and he wrote back with an excuse that the washers are for adjusting disc brakes; he ignored the fact that his mechanic had botched it. However, I read that post mounted calipers don't use those convex/concave washers. It was the same bike on which the chain got wrapped around the axle.

There's more but this is getting rather long. Five botched jobs! Why I put up with this business for so long, I don't know, but it got me into buying bike tools and learning from videos how to do all my own repairs. I've done my own cars and truck mechanical work since I was young, but that doesn't make me a bike mechanic. As of this date I can now true a wheel and tension the spokes. More recently, I replaced the head set and free hub on my fat bike, and cleaned and re-greased the wheel bearings with White Lightning Crystal grease. And I don't have to keep making the 14-miles round trip to that awful LBS. I found a much better bike shop where I recently bought a new cruiser. It's twice as far away, but well worth the drive. And what a difference!

Some people advise not buying a bike from a big box store, but they don't come any worse than my first LBS.
If I knew how to ride a bike properly, I'd do it every time.
  Reply
#7
[quote='CharleyFarley' pid='37979'
Some people advise not buying a bike from a big box store, but they don't come any worse than my first LBS.
[/quote]

That's a good commentary for everyone. I certainly have not had a problem with new bikes (only 2, decades ago). Recently, while home I visited my old shop and found the same gentleman there (over 40 years in business) and I was able to thank him for my first new ride and the service he had provided. I would have no problem with letting him work on any of my rides. Most businesses are lucky to survive for ten years given the quality of their service. I have really only had quality handmade race bikes with very good components. My "older" (+50 years old) rides even though mass produced, were certainly checked more rigorously in the quality control department. WW2 bikes functional with original parts even though well used by the time I acquired them. The 1930's Colson tandem is a good example of this. I don't claim to be a bicycle mechanic, but I have shown the mechanic at my co-op a few things, since he doesn't get any vintage racers to work on, mostly fixing up "stamped out" bikes of the last 20 years or so. Amazing how much needs to be "fixed" on a brand new bike. Imagine if car companies (not that they're perfect) put out that type of product on a regular basis. Nothing like what you have iterated should happen that often, yet I regularly "fix" new bikes for friends and others; mostly these are "fake" or cheap mountain bikes. I still can't figure out why Shimano, et al. would sell some of the crap that is used on these
"Bikes". No bike should have any problems other than cable stretch (if equipped), or other "breaking in" and fitting adjustments.
Lessons to be learned when buying just about any product nowadays.

Take care,
Jesper
Take care,
Jesper

"I am become Death, the destroyer of bicycles." NJS
  Reply
#8
A quick note about "mechanics" adding non-original, or removing factory installed hardware to new bikes: it should never be done unless included with the bike. If anything was added or removed no matter by who, it is indicative of damage, poor manufacturing, improper assembly, and/or improper parts/accessory installation. There should never be any reason to have to pay for any corrective actions taken to "fix" a new bike; including returning the product. Beware, if you do anything to correct a problem, it may void warranties written or implied.
Take care,
Jesper

"I am become Death, the destroyer of bicycles." NJS
  Reply
#9
I always take them off, but left it on my GF's bike.
"Carbon is faster"
  Reply
#10
(07-09-2020, 07:19 AM)Nikko Wrote:  I always take them off, but left it on my GF's bike.

Why do you take them off?
If I knew how to ride a bike properly, I'd do it every time.
  Reply
#11
(07-09-2020, 07:19 AM)Nikko Wrote:  I always take them off, but left it on my GF's bike.

(07-09-2020, 07:47 AM)CharleyFarley Wrote:  
(07-09-2020, 07:19 AM)Nikko Wrote:  I always take them off, but left it on my GF's bike.

Why do you take them off?

You both made me chuckle a little!

Nikko,
No respect for the girlfriend; give her a chance to move up to "cyclist" status as opposed to just "bike rider". I'm sure she deserves it!

Charley,
It's just not COOL; how many pro cyclists use them? Also, lighter weight bike.

Unfortunately, I'm at the age where l still want to be cool, but am too old to really care either.


I'm glad this thread is still getting responses as my attitude has become slightly more biased towards the "leave it on" camp.

Here is my old post:
I'm mixed on this subject. If doing a true restoration, it stays; of course you want one that is not torn up, "yellowed", rusted, etc. If upgrading/modifying it is gone, assuming there will be a properly adjusted derailleur.
I don't mind the chromed steel or alloy ones as much as the plastic; but the plastic discs can look pretty cool if painted to match or contrast with the frame color.
I do like a lot a bikes with the chainring guards, some add a nice aesthetic touch, while also having a functional purpose; especially on the commuter/cruiser bikes.

Here is the updated response:
Keep it on for a few reasons: 1) it does no harm and certainly can prevent catastrophic damage to the bike and your body; 2) it may be one of the most valuable parts you may come across, the Campagnolo spoke guard for the Cambio Corsa gear changing system at $150-$200; dorky, I think not!; 3) I am presently working on a 1935/1936 Baggi French bike with an "Osgear" type shifting system where there is no way to prevent the chain striker fork from interfering with the spokes due to the fact that the shift action requires you to "over shift" in order to achieve a gear change. Without the spoke guard things could go drastically wrong! So again, not too dorky!

I still don't see a problem with removing it if you are adept at adjusting the RD; essentially making if functionally unneeded.
Take care,
Jesper

"I am become Death, the destroyer of bicycles." NJS
  Reply
#12
(07-09-2020, 10:02 AM)Jesper Wrote:  
(07-09-2020, 07:19 AM)Nikko Wrote:  I always take them off, but left it on my GF's bike.

Quote:Why do you take them off?

You both made me chuckle a little!

Here is the updated response:
Keep it on for a few reasons: 1) it does no harm and certainly can prevent catastrophic damage to the bike and your body; 2) it may be one of the most valuable parts you may come across, the Campagnolo spoke guard for the Cambio Corsa gear changing system at $150-$200; dorky, I think not!; 3) I am presently working on a 1935/1936 Baggi French bike with an "Osgear" type shifting system where there is no way to prevent the chain striker fork from interfering with the spokes due to the fact that the shift action requires you to "over shift" in order to achieve a gear change. Without the spoke guard things could go drastically wrong! So again, not to dorky!

I still don't see a problem with removing it if you are adept at adjusting the RD to essentially make if functionally unneeded.

For me, I'm not about aesthetics especially when it comes to a protective device. I don't care how ugly it may be. Having had one incident with the chain wrapping around the axle, I'll always keep the dork disc on the bike. And, although it's highly unlikely I'll ever get into racing or road bikes, if I did get one it would have a dork disc on it. And if it didn't have one, it would get one.

I used to be on another forum a couple of years ago, and I was into the subject of dork discs. One guy said they quickly deteriorate, turn yellow, crack and rattle. I pointed out that mine had been in place for about two years (at that time) and had not turned yellow or cracked, and it doesn't rattle, and that was after the chain came off and jammed against the disc. That guy called me a liar. Yet here I am, with the fat bike nearly four years old and the disc is still in excellent condition. I believe this disc is polycarbonate which is more flexible and less prone to cracking, not just plain plastic . Okay, it's not crystal clear like glass and I don't know that it ever was, but I don't care about that.

I am quite able to adjust the derailleur without it pushing the chain off the large cog. Indeed, since I adjusted it nearly four years ago, it's been perfect, and that's despite installing a new freehub and cassette. I could remove the disc but... once bitten, twice shy. Which is why I asked why remove it? If you ain't got a fancy bike, and the derailleur is correctly adjusted, leave it on.
If I knew how to ride a bike properly, I'd do it every time.
  Reply
#13
I don't disagree with you Charley, but what you needed was an inboard chainring guard. Those keep the chain from getting stuck in between the crank and bottom bracket shell (if that is where your chain got stuck). They are common on many cyclocross cranksets (pros do use them!) and l would never remove them; l would think they'd fairly standard on mtb's also, but l rarely see them. The rear disc came into play in order to keep the old shifter systems (like on my bike) and "modern" derailleurs without limit adjustments from contacting the spokes. Once rear derailleurs all became designed with limit adjustments they became obsolete except to avoid the damage of misadjusted rear derailleurs; which admittedly still happens from the factory, bike shop, and at home. I've yet to see a thrown chain on the rear cause spoke damage, nor get "stuck" where it can't be removed. The front is usually the problem area in regards to the stuck chain issue. Still, l have no problem leaving them on a bike; to me it really doesn't detract from the aesthetics, and in many cases increases the aesthetics (l am being a bit facetious about the "cool" factor), but on a bike that is designed for racing (be it a professional grade or amateur) they should not be installed. Similar to the "safety" brake levers, they don't belong on a bike marketed as a race bike design. I always wondered why a drop handle bar was put on a bike marketed as a recreational bike since riders in that category never use them; wouldn't find a drop bar on a cruiser (unless modified) so why find them on what are essentially lightweight narrow wheel "cruisers"? Marketing and image, they look sportier and give those bikes a more "professional" appearance. Those days have pretty much passed since now those same bikes from the 80s and earlier are now being fit with a straighter/moustache bar due to the way people actually ride them (more upright posture than racing aero posture).
Even with all that said; l'd still leave stock discs and any other guard on a bike unless you're doing a "performance" and/or "custom modification" to a bike. A reason why l don't call them "dork discs", because they are not; otherwise we should call helmets "dork domes"!; which they certainly are not regardless of the type of riding you do.

Take care,
Jesper
Take care,
Jesper

"I am become Death, the destroyer of bicycles." NJS
  Reply
#14
Big Grin 
(07-09-2020, 08:39 PM)Jesper Wrote:  
(07-09-2020, 12:59 PM)CharleyFarley Wrote:  
I don't disagree with you Charley, but what you needed was an inboard chainring guard. Those keep the chain from getting stuck in between the crank and bottom bracket shell (if that is where your chain got stuck).

I believe I stated that the chain got wrapped around the axle. The derailleur pushed the chain off the large cog and onto the axle. An inboard chainring guard would have done nothing to prevent that. I've never had a problem with the double chain ring on my fat bike.

Quote: The rear disc came into play in order to keep the old shifter systems (like on my bike) and "modern" derailleurs without limit adjustments from contacting the spokes. Once rear derailleurs all became designed with limit adjustments they became obsolete except to avoid the damage of misadjusted rear derailleurs; which admittedly still happens from the factory, bike shop, and at home.

In my case, the derailleur was never adjusted properly. I'm glad the disc wasn't obsolete. And I don't believe it was my job to check the derailleur for proper adjustment before I rode it; that was the bike shop's job. If it was my job to check it, first, then that would apply to everyone who buys a new bike, and I doubt that most people would have a clue how to do it. Thank goodness for Walmart 'mechanics' who check them, first, which is more than can be said for my first LBS. 😊

Quote: I've yet to see a thrown chain on the rear cause spoke damage, nor get "stuck" where it can't be removed.

Mine got stuck, and it took me about fifteen minutes to free it, leaving me with black and sore hands. I've never seen it, before, either. Nobody wants such a thing to happen miles from home but it happened. The discs certainly aren't obsolete as evidenced by all the new bikes fitted with them. Manufacturers could save money by not putting them on their bikes. I doubt that the majority of people care about the discs on their bikes; only the racers care, and I don't remember seeing any of those on the roads., but if I did, I wouldn't be looking to see if they have pie plates on them. Only another racer might be looking for them.

Quote: The front is usually the problem area in regards to the stuck chain issue.

I never heard of that happening to anyone.

Quote: A reason why l don't call them "dork discs", because they are not; otherwise we should call helmets "dork domes"!; which they certainly are not regardless of the type of riding you do.

My preferred term is "pie plate." I only call them "dork discs" when others have used the term in their first response. Perhaps, then, helmets should be called "pie hats." 😁
If I knew how to ride a bike properly, I'd do it every time.
  Reply
#15
(07-10-2020, 08:08 AM)CharleyFarley Wrote:  
(07-09-2020, 08:39 PM)Jesper Wrote:  
(07-09-2020, 12:59 PM)CharleyFarley Wrote:  
I don't disagree with you Charley, but what you needed was an inboard chainring guard. Those keep the chain from getting stuck in between the crank and bottom bracket shell (if that is where your chain got stuck).

I believe I stated that the chain got wrapped around the axle. The derailleur pushed the chain off the large cog and onto the axle. An inboard chainring guard would have done nothing to prevent that. I've never had a problem with the double chain ring on my fat bike.

Quote: The rear disc came into play in order to keep the old shifter systems (like on my bike) and "modern" derailleurs without limit adjustments from contacting the spokes. Once rear derailleurs all became designed with limit adjustments they became obsolete except to avoid the damage of misadjusted rear derailleurs; which admittedly still happens from the factory, bike shop, and at home.

In my case, the derailleur was never adjusted properly. I'm glad the disc wasn't obsolete. And I don't believe it was my job to check the derailleur for proper adjustment before I rode it; that was the bike shop's job. If it was my job to check it, first, then that would apply to everyone who buys a new bike, and I doubt that most people would have a clue how to do it. Thank goodness for Walmart 'mechanics' who check them, first, which is more than can be said for my first LBS. 😊

Quote: I've yet to see a thrown chain on the rear cause spoke damage, nor get "stuck" where it can't be removed.

Mine got stuck, and it took me about fifteen minutes to free it, leaving me with black and sore hands. I've never seen it, before, either.
Please excuse my ignorance regarding your plight Charley; l thought you meant the crank axle, not the hub axle. Even given a rear disc it won't mean that it will or won't keep a chain from getting "stuck"; it would depend on what the spacing between the flange and large sprocket is since many have a spacer(s) to accommodate different gear clusters/cassettes. Usually you can use the crank to help get the chain free, that's why I'm surprised that it was stuck the way you mentioned; well l learn something everyday. Thanks for the clarification.

Take care,
Jesper
Take care,
Jesper

"I am become Death, the destroyer of bicycles." NJS
  Reply
#16
(07-10-2020, 02:36 PM)Jesper Wrote:  Please excuse my ignorance regarding your plight Charley; l thought you meant the crank axle, not the hub axle. Even given a rear disc it won't mean that it will or won't keep a chain from getting "stuck"; it would depend on what the spacing between the flange and large sprocket is since many have a spacer(s) to accommodate different gear clusters/cassettes. Usually you can use the crank to help get the chain free, that's why I'm surprised that it was stuck the way you mentioned; well l learn something everyday. Thanks for the clarification.

Bear in mind I was going uphill when the chain came off, so I was in the next to lowest gear. My cadence would have been faster than normal, and when I changed to the lowest gear, the chain came off; it took probably a second or less to bunch up around the rear axle. I remember hearing a quick crunch and the crank stopped. Both the top and bottom of the chain, from the axle to the chain ring were as tight as can be. There was no slack to enable me to get it off the chain ring, to give me some purchase on it so I could pull it out of the axle. I tried turning the crank backwards, thinking if it went in that way, then reversing it might free it but that didn't work. I was afraid to stand on the pedal to reverse the chain because it was pulled so tight through the derailleur, and I figured it might make things worse. I couldn't even push the bike backward to see if it would come loose.

If I'd had a piece of very stiff wire that I could have hooked into the bunched-up chain, that might have helped, but all I had was my bare hands. After struggling with it for ten minutes, I was on the verge of calling a cab to get me and the bike home. Another five minutes and it came free.

The bike comes apart quite easily, under normal circumstances, and I needed that when a screw went into my rear tire four miles from home. It was a hot day and no shade under which I could patch the tube. Pumping that huge tire up with a little pump (made for fat bike tires) would have taken me an hour, so I called the wife to come out and get me. The front wheel has a QR, and I had an adjustable to slacken the rear axle nuts. I took the wheels off and that enabled me to get the bike into our small SUV. I don't know if dropping the wheel out of the dropouts would have worked for removing the bunched-up chain, but I didn't have a wrench with me, at that time, to try it.

So you see why I favor the pie plate. I don't know if the spokes would have been damaged without it. If they were, who pays for the rebuild? I doubt the bike shop would have done it for free or under the warranty, and I doubt the warranty would have covered such a thing, anyway.

Everything happens to me! 😁
If I knew how to ride a bike properly, I'd do it every time.
  Reply
#17
Haha. I did not think that I will cause such storm of comments Big Grin
@Jesper has a good point - I need to be cool, but GF doesn't care. Fun discussion, I will have to read it over again tonight.
"Carbon is faster"
  Reply
#18
(07-12-2020, 06:25 PM)Nikko Wrote:  Haha. I did not think that I will cause such storm of comments Big Grin
@Jesper has a good point - I need to be cool, but GF doesn't care. Fun discussion, I will have to read it over again tonight.

It's long been controversial, Nikko. Jesper mentioned chromed steel spoke protectors, and I'd never seen or heard of them, so I took a look. I didn't see any made for a freehub but found them for a freewheel. I don't know that I'd go for one being as they are so cheap. Chromed steel tells me it might not be long before it rusts. Now if they were made of polished stainless steel, I'd consider one. Depends on how much such a thing would cost. And who are they meant to impress, anyway? I can't see it when I'm riding.

I read, somewhere, about mountain bikers who had sticks jump up and jam the chain and knock it off the cogs. I don't ride in those conditions so most likely I will never need a pie plate, again. But then there's Murphy's law: What can go wrong will go wrong.
If I knew how to ride a bike properly, I'd do it every time.
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