1978 Raleigh needs refreshing - a little confused

[78Raleigh]

Hi.

I've recently retired and decided that it's time to freshen up my 1978 Raleigh Record. The main thing I need to do is replace the rims/tires and all the cables. I try to be a daily rider in the summer, riding on suburban streets between 30-60 minutes several times per week. I've been using it almost daily for the last several years.

Both my rims are bent and the tires are shot. I have tires I really like right now that have been durable and lasted ma a long time; they are Tioga Bloodhounds -- 27 x 1-3/8. I've easily found the tires, but the rims are another story.

I've found rims here http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/rims/630.html, but want to be sure they'll work before I get some. It says "fits most 10-speeds and other "road" bikes made before the early 1980s. All of the rims shown here will work with any 27 inch tire". Is this or can I get a rim/spoke/hub assembly?

Anyone have any advice or anything I need to be aware of? Thanks.

[DaveM]

You can definitely get complete wheels (hub, rim, spokes) that will fit. Unless you particularly want to keep your current hubs, complete wheels are probably cheaper than buying new rims and having someone re-lace the wheels anyway.

For wheels, you need a 27" rim and a hub that will accept a freewheel (not a cassette). Your bike probably has steel rims. I would get aluminum unless you are really trying to maintain it in original condition.

Finally, how "bent" are your current wheels? If there's just a little side to side wobble, they may be able to be "trued" (straightened). If they've got dents or sharp bends, probably need to replace.

[78Raleigh]

I'm sure the rims are steel, they're original and it was just an off-the-shelf bike in 1978. They're in pretty bad shape, not only bent, but dented in some spots. I even have my wife's 1979 Record for spare parts, but her wheels are smaller. Thanks.

[RobAR]

Hi 78. Dave is correct about the economics of a new wheelset. I have been working in a Local Bike Shop (LBS) since 1994 and, in a situation like yours, 99% of the time the cost of replacements is less than my labor to relace and the new rims.
If you have a LBS and can provide the following info, I may be able to provide you with some approx prices and part numbers that they should be able to get for you.

1 - Hubs. Need the OLD (over locknut dimension) in millimeters. Pop the wheels out and measure the distance between the dropouts at front and rear. Probably 100 mm Front and 126 mm Rear.

2 - Hubs. Are they Bolt On (with a nut) or Quick Release (with a skewer)?

3 - Rear Hub. I assume that you have a freewheel as opposed to a cassette. How many cogs? 5, 6?

4 - Rims. Steel is still available but I can't recommend it. It is often as costly as alloy (aluminum) because so few are sold. Alloy will also provide superior braking.

Keep us posted!

[GeorgeET]

10-4 to getting new wheels for $99 you can get better wheels than you have with SS spokes that cost less than relacing to a hub that needs a rebuild and for which parts are not available.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/wheels/630.html

BTW congratulations on retiring, have fun.

[78Raleigh]

(02-23-2011, 07:36 PM)RobAR Wrote:  Hi 78. Dave is correct about the economics of a new wheelset. I have been working in a Local Bike Shop (LBS) since 1994 and, in a situation like yours, 99% of the time the cost of replacements is less than my labor to relace and the new rims.
If you have a LBS and can provide the following info, I may be able to provide you with some approx prices and part numbers that they should be able to get for you.

1 - Hubs. Need the OLD (over locknut dimension) in millimeters. Pop the wheels out and measure the distance between the dropouts at front and rear. Probably 100 mm Front and 126 mm Rear.

2 - Hubs. Are they Bolt On (with a nut) or Quick Release (with a skewer)?

3 - Rear Hub. I assume that you have a freewheel as opposed to a cassette. How many cogs? 5, 6?

4 - Rims. Steel is still available but I can't recommend it. It is often as costly as alloy (aluminum) because so few are sold. Alloy will also provide superior braking.

Keep us posted!

After a little more research and measuring, here's what I've determined:

The wheels are actually 27 x 1-1/4

Front spacing is 100mm, rear is126mm

Front axle length is 127mm, rear is 165mm

Both are bolt-on, no quick release. (prefer bolt-on)

It's a 10 speed bike, 5 cogs on rear wheel. I don't know what you mean by freewheel vs. cassette-??

I'm hoping to find some in the $25-35 range. Possible?

[RobAR]

These part numbers are for a company called J&B that most LBS's are hooked up with. You can't buy from J&B.
The most basic 27 x 1 1/4 is (front) 6401 and (rear) 6403. These are Bolt On (BO), chrome plated (CP), with 36 UCP spokes. They accept a thread on freewheel, which is what you have. They should cost no more than $60 (pair) tops. At my shop, they would be under $50.

Another thought - look for used wheels in better condition than yours. Behind the shop, we have a bike 'graveyard' with several of those wheels. Your shop probably does, too.

[nfmisso]

(03-04-2011, 05:51 PM)78Raleigh Wrote:  .........
The wheels are actually 27 x 1-1/4

Front spacing is 100mm, rear is126mm
.........
It's a 10 speed bike, 5 cogs on rear wheel. I don't know what you mean by freewheel vs. cassette-??
........

27 x 1¼ is the tire size, not the wheel size. Don't worry, it is standard.

Your 100 and 126mm OLD (Overall Length Dimension) are also standard.

You have a freewheel.

A few months ago I found some wheels for my mid '80's bike on ebay; they were late '80s with sealed bearings, equipped for a freewheel, light alloy rims and hubs, and nice stainless steel spokes. They were considerably more than your budget, but have proven to be reliable, and strong. The previous wheels I had on the bike (new alloy, UCP spokes, brand new, cheap) had broken spokes in the rear in a couple hundred miles, and even on the front in less than 1000 miles. Since then, I have built myself a truing stand, and completely respoked both of those "new" wheels - they are my spares.

If you purchase "budget" wheels, you will need to have them tensioned, stress relieved and trued (aka tuned). Most shops charge $25 to $35 per wheel.

Harris Cyclery has a good reputation, and $100- is a good deal for wheels that have been tuned.

[RobAR]

Eloquently phrased, nfmisso.
78 - read that again. Being retired, you have time to read and ride. I want to retire.

[78Raleigh]

Thanks a lot guys, I never realized all the specifics. I guess it's like that in any area. I'm also rejuvenating an 1964 boat, learned a lot from doing that too.

Retirement is the best kept secret there is. It's like heaven on earth.

[JohnV]

Quote:Retirement is the best kept secret there is. It's like heaven on earth.

I was there once (retirement). Got an offer I couldn't refuse and went back to work. Waiting for my wife to be able to retire, then its retirement for good. Just one more year....... Yeah!

[KC-Steve]

Welcome to the forum 78Raleigh!

I have a 1977 Raleigh Record Ace that I am still refurbing a year later. I'm taking too much time getting it done because of all the other projects going on. But I can certainly understand your concern about replacing wheels/rims. I am trying to keep my rebuild budget under what I could sell it for in today's bike market, so I could never justify buying a new set of wheels unless I planned to keep it. And I think it will fetch more dollars in it's original state (w/new tires!). The old rims are in fact steel and spent hours polishing the chrome back to life. Photos below are pre-refurb photos. As you might notice in the photos, I think it sat unused in a garage for 25+ years.

Steve

[KC-Steve]

Here's the catalog page from 1977 . . .

Steve

[78Raleigh]

KC-Steve,

Thanks for the info & photos. Our bikes could "almost" be twins. So far I have about $116 into it for front & rear wheelsets, new tires, brake cables & a set of tire levers. All I need beyond that are shift cables & a general lube & cleanup. That should about do it for making it safe & tuned again.

I know it's not the Rolls Royce of bikes, but I've always liked it & it's a solid machine and suits my purposes. I should just have it done for the return of riding weather.

Turns out my wife's old bike mentioned above does have 27" wheels, but they're no good either. At least I have a supply of spare parts if I need them!

[78Raleigh]

Now another question...it looks like I need a special socket tool to remove the freewheel cog & I've found a couple online. Are they a standard size or do I need to know a particular size to buy?

[cyclerUK]

(03-13-2011, 01:48 PM)78Raleigh Wrote:  Now another question...it looks like I need a special socket tool to remove the freewheel cog & I've found a couple online. Are they a standard size or do I need to know a particular size to buy?

You need to know
Although the tools may look the same there are variations.

Park tool website:-
Tools - http://www.parktool.com/category/freewheel-cassette
How to - http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/cassette-and-freewheel-removal

[trevgbb]

Cycleruk has pointed you to the Park tools site, the attached pic is probably the tool you need for your age of bike (unless the block has already been replaced) if so, beware, this is a very fragile tool, it is all to easy to break off the the prongs.
When in use, make sure that it sits firmly in the mating sockets and hold it in place with the track nut run up on the end, if you have a decent vice, clamp on the flats and apply a rotational force to the wheel, make sure you do it in the correct direction, it is a right hand thread. Alternatively use a spanner as long as possible and attempt to turn the tool.
You will probably fail!! either breaking the tool or being unable to apply sufficient force, so as you are buying new wheels, buy a new gear block the same as your existing one if you can find one.

[KC-Steve]

(03-13-2011, 01:48 PM)78Raleigh Wrote:  Now another question...it looks like I need a special socket tool to remove the freewheel cog & I've found a couple online. Are they a standard size or do I need to know a particular size to buy?

Yeah, CyclerUK has you pointed in the right direction. I used the FR-2.

HOWEVER, being as old as it was, the freewheel is extremely difficult to break loose. What finally worked for me was to place the FR-2 tool face up between my bench vise jaws and tighten it to hold it firmly while I placed the wheel over the tool fitting it properly. Once it was locked on the tool, I then used both hands to turn the wheel using the leverage of the entire wheel to break the hold of the freewheel lock.

Believe when I say, you will think you have broken the whole thing before you get it loose.

Good luck,
Steve

[78Raleigh]

Mine looks like this (has 24 splines):

[78Raleigh]

I found this online. I bought mine in March 1978 for $149.95 and it's an LTD model. So mine could be a 1977. I haven't been able to find anything on a 1978 Record LTD.