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Yet another bike ID thread (Pseudo-Battaglin?)
#1
Question 
Hello, guys and gals, from a new member. After many years of tinkering with MTBs, I decided to take on another project and build myself a (kind of) vintage road bike. So today I got this frame, shown in the pictures below, with some weird "Giovanni Battaglin" decals on it and some unknown (to me) logo on the head and seat tubes. Also, it has a "B" embellished on the main tube lug and on the seatstay caps, which looks suspiciously like the Bianchi's "B". The frame has an Italian BB thread and, as you can see, some wild paintwork.

I have never seen a Battaglin frame with such features - it lacks the well known logo with the hunched down racer guy and also the braze-on flag on the top tube. And the decals are nowhere near those I've seen on the most popular Battaglin models. So, most likely, it has nothing to do with The Man of Steel himself or his company, apart from the fact, that some enthusiast has decided put his name on it.

Also, it's pretty much on the heavy side - 3.54 kg (7.8 lbs), including frame, fork, BB and headset.

The dropout spacing is 125 mm, so I guess it's mid 80's or something. On the BB there is the size measurement (57) and also some serial number - B663 (if it makes any sense).

The frame was kinda cheap (70 euro), so it's mine anyway, whatever it is. But just out of curiosity it will be interesting to know if anyone has come across something like that.

Thanks in advance Smile

   
   
   
   
   
   
   
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#2
(09-08-2021, 06:14 PM)Ivan Nonchev Wrote:  Hello, guys and gals, from a new member. After many years of tinkering with MTBs, I decided to take on another project and build myself a (kind of) vintage road bike. So today I got this frame, shown in the pictures below, with some weird "Giovanni Battaglin" decals on it and some unknown (to me) logo on the head and seat tubes. Also, it has a "B" embellished on the main tube lug and on the seatstay caps, which looks suspiciously like the Bianchi's "B". The frame has an Italian BB thread and, as you can see, some wild paintwork.

I have never seen a Battaglin frame with such features - it lacks the well known logo with the hunched down racer guy and also the braze-on flag on the top tube. And the decals are nowhere near those I've seen on the most popular Battaglin models. So, most likely, it has nothing to do with The Man of Steel himself or his company, apart from the fact, that some enthusiast has decided put his name on it.

Also, it's pretty much on the heavy side - 3.54 kg (7.8 lbs), including frame, fork, BB and headset.

The dropout spacing is 125 mm, so I guess it's mid 80's or something. On the BB there is the size measurement (57) and also some serial number - B663 (if it makes any sense).

The frame was kinda cheap (70 euro), so it's mine anyway, whatever it is. But just out of curiosity it will be interesting to know if anyone has come across something like that.

Thanks in advance Smile

Hi Ivan, I am far from an expert on frames and IDs, but I do have a few Italian frames/bikes that I work and ride on. I have not seen that headbadge before, but that does not mean that it is not a Battaglin; possibly a lower cost contract build not made in shop. It does seem rather heavy by a pound to one and a half pounds for a higher end tubing frame, but if you weighed it with the bottom bracket and headset installed it may account for the extra weight. If you are removing the headset and bottom bracket recheck the weight. If Columbus SL/SLX you should have a seat post O.D. of 27.2mm (seat tube I.D.). I would verify that first to get an idea of the tubing. Make sure the seat lug clamp has not been squeezed down to the next smaller size or two (26.8-27.0mm); a common occurrence with some older bikes when folks used the incorrect size post by mistake or for ease of insertion. My other suggestion is to measure the bottom bracket shell width 70mm being the most common Italian width regardless of threads (Italian 36mm x 24 t.p.i.).
Possibly, or probably a replacement fork due to having eyelets on the dropouts (Campagnolo, front & rear?), and there being none on the rear dropouts. Possible repaint, gold piping looks unprofessionally done. Check inside shell for overspray after bottom bracket removal. "B" cut-outs/pantographs do not seem like a quality Bianchi style.

We need @Jesper to provide some more insight since he has far more experience with these vintage frames.
Ride Fast, Be Safe!
Howard
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#3
Smile 
Criminal, thanks for the info. For now I will not be removing the BB, so I gues I'll check that some time later. The seatpost is 27.2, I measured it and it has not been clamped down.

The fork is not original most likely. I noticed the rack eyelets too.

As far as the brand, the name of Giovanni Battaglin is spelled incorrectly on the seat tube Smile So it has surely been repainted and then it recieved some random decals. I know that it may have been a Battaglin before this happened, but who knows Smile
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#4
(09-10-2021, 01:55 AM)Ivan Nonchev Wrote:  Criminal, thanks for the info. For now I will not be removing the BB, so I guess I'll check that some time later. The seatpost is 27.2, I measured it and it has not been clamped down.

The fork is not original most likely. I noticed the rack eyelets too.

As far as the brand, the name of Giovanni Battaglin is spelled incorrectly on the seat tube Smile So it has surely been repainted and then it received some random decals. I know that it may have been a Battaglin before this happened, but who knows Smile

Hey Ivan,

Sounds to me like it is at least an Italian made frame given the Italian BB threading and I will assume a 70mm wide shell. Probably a lot lighter than your weight with the BB and headset removed so with the 27.2mm post I would say it is more than likely a Columbus SL tubed frame; fork notwithstanding. Only mystery is the marque and builder. I had not noticed the misspelled decal. It seems odd that you would be able to get one that was not correctly spelled (unless individual lettering) such as the down tube decal which is also in the correct font or style, but it is found on much newer Battaglin frames than that one. My guess is that by using the full name there may have been some personal trademark issues and a misspelled name avoided that legal conflict. If is a Battaglin marque bike I would guess it to be a contract build (not uncommon) for the company which sold at a much lower cost with entry to mid level components if completely outfitted when new.

I included a photo of Jesper's (his photo from thread:https://forums.bikeride.com/thread-6908.html?highlight=tommasini )Tommasini, which although it has proper decals, it has none of the other frame details that a Tommasini would have; more than likely made by a contract builder, but still allowing the Tommasini marque to be used for marketing a lower cost bike.


Attached Files Image(s)
   
Ride Fast, Be Safe!
Howard
  Reply
#5
Quote: Only mystery is the marque and builder. I had not noticed the misspelled decal. It seems odd that you would be able to get one that was not correctly spelled (unless individual lettering) such as the down tube decal which is also in the correct font or style, but it is found on much newer Battaglin frames than that one.


The decals are gone now, anyway. I'm 99% sure it's a Bianchi and one of it's owners decided to "rebrand" it for reasons unknown. The frame is almost identical to the Bianchi Campione d'Italia from the early 80's. The "B" on the main lug and on the seatstay caps is the same. Of course, I can't confirm that for sure.
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#6
(09-14-2021, 01:30 AM)Ivan Nonchev Wrote:  
Quote: Only mystery is the marque and builder. I had not noticed the misspelled decal. It seems odd that you would be able to get one that was not correctly spelled (unless individual lettering) such as the down tube decal which is also in the correct font or style, but it is found on much newer Battaglin frames than that one.


The decals are gone now, anyway. I'm 99% sure it's a Bianchi and one of it's owners decided to "rebrand" it for reasons unknown. The frame is almost identical to the Bianchi Campione d'Italia from the early 80's. The "B" on the main lug and on the seatstay caps is the same. Of course, I can't confirm that for sure.

Too bad the fork is not OE, it would have been an easier ID. I looked at some seat stay panto's and although similar with the "B" in a circle the style was different and better detailed (could be over paint on yours), same with the lug cutouts for bikes of a similar age (80's). Still I would go with your Bianchi assumption over the Battaglin, but if I would not be sure for certain until I could match it 100% to a known Bianchi. Also, the stay cap was different and did not "ride-up" as far on the seat tube where there was a serial (?) number.

   
(photo credit: caqwesearch (?))
Take care,
Jesper

"I am become Death, the destroyer of bicycles." NJS
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#7
Wink 
So, here's a little update on the project, as I promised. The "Pseudo-Battaglin" turned to be a repainted and re-decaled Bianchi. I'm still not sure if it's a Campione d'Italia or a Nuovo Alloro, but it doesn't really matter to me. It's now fully operational with an almost complete Shimano 600 groupset. Only the cransket is some kind of cheapish Shimano FC-R2000, because I don't want to ride anything other than a compact, and the retro looking compacts were way beyond my budget limit. Maybe someday I'll equip it with a Stronglight or something like that. The wheelset is also kind of cheapish Novatec hubs with Remerx Alcyon rims and it's the only thing in the bike that is not suited to the 80's timeline, together with the Ultegra rear derailleur. I cold setted the frame to accomodate the 130 rear hub and I put a 10 speed Ultegra 11-28 cassette Smile The bike has a 42cm Guid bar with a 100mm ITM stem. The seatpost is also from ITM. So now the only thing it lacks is some decent mileage Smile Today I added some 32 kilometers in the mountains with an 800 meters of elevation and I think the Bianchi felt home Smile

Cheers!


Attached Files Image(s)
               
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#8
(11-28-2021, 02:14 PM)Ivan Nonchev Wrote:  So, here's a little update on the project, as I promised. The "Pseudo-Battaglin" turned to be a repainted and re-decaled Bianchi. I'm still not sure if it's a Campione d'Italia or a Nuovo Alloro, but it doesn't really matter to me. It's now fully operational with an almost complete Shimano 600 groupset. Only the cransket is some kind of cheapish Shimano FC-R2000, because I don't want to ride anything other than a compact, and the retro looking compacts were way beyond my budget limit. Maybe someday I'll equip it with a Stronglight or something like that. The wheelset is also kind of cheapish Novatec hubs with Remerx Alcyon rims and it's the only thing in the bike that is not suited to the 80's timeline, together with the Ultegra rear derailleur. I cold setted the frame to accomodate the 130 rear hub and I put a 10 speed Ultegra 11-28 cassette Smile The bike has a 42cm Guid bar with a 100mm ITM stem. The seatpost is also from ITM. So now the only thing it lacks is some decent mileage Smile Today I added some 32 kilometers in the mountains with an 800 meters of elevation and I think the Bianchi felt home Smile

Cheers!

Looks great Ivan! I kind of like the "cheap" cranks; i would only change out the large ring, or have it milled and drilled. That always makes them look like an older style even though the crank arm/spider is newer.
You have a very nice area to ride in! Thanks for the update.
Take care,
Jesper

"I am become Death, the destroyer of bicycles." NJS
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