Hmm how about renovating? British Hercules

[Konstantin]

Well, hello everyone this is my first post.

I have been trying to renovate an old road bike a British hercules. The thing is that the bike has old components and I have trouble finding other ones. I want to keep the front chainring 48t but remove the internal hub that my gramp was using. Instead i decided to buy a nice wheel with a 9 cassette and the suitable deraileur. Well my main problem is...Will this fit with the 48t chainring? Is the deraileur going to be ok with the claw type hanger (the bike has no built-in hanger)? In copenhagen where I live we have no steep hills, everything is basically so flat it ends up boring...what do you suggest?

Thanks!


Ps. The bike was originally with a 6 gear cassette and an old simplex deraileur! But these ancient parts of mine are in very bad shape...

[cny-man]

The front chainring is likely built for an 1/8 inch chain, all cassettes require 3/32, so the combo will not work. Also you would have to spread the rear dropouts to fit in a modern multispeed hub. Terrible thing in my view to do to a classic 3 speed.

[elmore leonard]

Welcome, I just recently joined myself. A British Hercules is like a 3 speed Raliegh?
I would second what cny-man said.
Fix it up as a classic 3 speed. You will save yourself a big headache.

[cny-man]

If you want a multispeed bike then spiff up the Herc and sell it, buy what you want instead of spending much more to cobble together something.

[Konstantin]

The bike is not a classical 3 gear. My grandpa put on an internal shimano nexus for riding it when the old deraileur was too damaged. Now it has a 3 gear shimano nexus. The initial shifter is a down tube huret counting up to 6 which basically means that the old cassette had six gears.

[Konstantin]

PS. My hub spacing is 120mm on the back end of the frame. So I guess a 7 gear shimano HG cassette will fit. Still the problem remains the same. With an open dropout and a claw hanger what deraileur can be used so I have no problems?

[cny-man]

The additional info changes things, of course. Sounds like quite a few changes were already made. However 126 is standard 7 speed road spacing, so still not wide enough, and you still need to confirm that a 3/32 (narrow) chain will fit.

[Konstantin]

the bike is using an old front 116 mm in diameter coronado chainring which is meant for a narrow chain 3/32....Actually the old chain that is still in the basement with some removed components is 3/32... With this hub spacing the bike is meant to be a perfect fixie. But still...I dont think that a fixed gear would be enough even in Copenhagen..

[cny-man]

OK, now that you've provided more info it appears you can go ahead, but the lever you use (if you want indexing) is the critical item - any claw mount Shimano index compatible road derailleur will work.

[Konstantin]

thank you very much dude for the replying and the guidance. The frame is CrMo so it appears to be elastic enough to fit a 126 hub. I have also found a pair of wheels with freewheel compatible hub coming in both 120 and 126mm I ll buy the latter and try it with a 7 gear freewheel cassette.

Ps. About indexing....I like the retro style of the bike, I think I am keeping the old friction shifter... It has numbers but not predefined positions for gears..


Thanks again!

[nfmisso]

I will jump in here

I would like to suggest these hubs: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/09/21/grand-bois-5-speed-cassette-hubs/ which will allow you to keep the 120mm frame spacing. If you go the 6 speed route, you can purchase any Shimano compatible 8 speed cassette and remove two sprockets and spacers. I'd go with a Shimano 13-26 8 speed cassette, and Miche 15T first position 8/9 speed Shimano compatible cog; to give you a 15-17-19-21-23-26 6 speed cassette; in combination with 48T chainring. It is nice close ratio combination that should work nicely in Copenhagen.

I would not suggest just pushing in a 126mm hub; if you want 126mm (or more); I'd re-space the frame.

CrMo frames take a bit more deflection than hi-ten steel frames, because CrMo has much higher yield strength. I use a 3/8" CrMo threaded rod with threaded knobs for respacing. In Europe, an M10 threaded rod and knobs is probably easier to obtain.

Regarding claw mount rear derailleur (RD); the Shimano Tourney TX55 is a solid choice for friction or index. It does have a modern look. If you want a classic look RD that has top performance, look for a Suntour V-GT (low end) or similar higher end Suntour RD from the '70's. The V-GT (and the higher end ones) were well enough made to work well with 7 speed indexing - other RDs from that era are not that good.

Do replace your chain. I like KMC X8.93 for my 8 and less speed bikes.

[Konstantin]

(01-25-2015, 06:06 PM)nfmisso Wrote:  I will jump in here

I would like to suggest these hubs: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/09/21/grand-bois-5-speed-cassette-hubs/ which will allow you to keep the 120mm frame spacing. If you go the 6 speed route, you can purchase any Shimano compatible 8 speed cassette and remove two sprockets and spacers. I'd go with a Shimano 13-26 8 speed cassette, and Miche 15T first position 8/9 speed Shimano compatible cog; to give you a 15-17-19-21-23-26 6 speed cassette; in combination with 48T chainring. It is nice close ratio combination that should work nicely in Copenhagen.

I would not suggest just pushing in a 126mm hub; if you want 126mm (or more); I'd re-space the frame.

CrMo frames take a bit more deflection than hi-ten steel frames, because CrMo has much higher yield strength. I use a 3/8" CrMo threaded rod with threaded knobs for respacing. In Europe, an M10 threaded rod and knobs is probably easier to obtain.

Regarding claw mount rear derailleur (RD); the Shimano Tourney TX55 is a solid choice for friction or index. It does have a modern look. If you want a classic look RD that has top performance, look for a Suntour V-GT (low end) or similar higher end Suntour RD from the '70's. The V-GT (and the higher end ones) were well enough made to work well with 7 speed indexing - other RDs from that era are not that good.

Do replace your chain. I like KMC X8.93 for my 8 and less speed bikes.

Thank you for the nice advice I definitely needed that. Though it is nice to have these hubs I have found some really nice wheels with a freewheel hub. I would dare to use them. Basically because I like the idea of having the ability to choose between a fixed gear and a multigear. I see you're a lot more advanced than me in knowledge about bikes so could you possibly suggest any freewheel with 5-6-7 gears? It would be perfect to use this hub but I have very small experience in wheelbuilding...

[nfmisso]

(01-25-2015, 07:22 PM)Konstantin Wrote:  Thank you for the nice advice I definitely needed that. Though it is nice to have these hubs I have found some really nice wheels with a freewheel hub. I would dare to use them. Basically because I like the idea of having the ability to choose between a fixed gear and a multigear. ..........

Multispeed freewheels take more space than single speed freewheels, and do not fit on the same hub assemblies. The threading is the same, but the multi speed freewheels need a longer axle with spacers to push the freewheel far enough from the frame so that things don't interfere. If you try to put a multi speed freewheel on a 120mm flip flop hub, you are going to need to add 6 to 10 mm of spacer to the multi speed side, and probably will need a longer axle.

You are going to have to build up different rear wheels for (1) fixed or single speed and (2) multi speed.

(01-25-2015, 07:22 PM)Konstantin Wrote:  ........I see you're a lot more advanced than me in knowledge about bikes so could you possibly suggest any freewheel with 5-6-7 gears? It would be perfect to use this hub but I have very small experience in wheelbuilding...

Freewheels - IRD are the only "high" quality freewheels currently offered, they are PRICEY. If you are riding 15000km per year, you'll be able to pay for a Grand Bios in three to five years.
http://store.interlocracing.com/cl5fr.html
http://www.interlocracing.com/cassettes-freewheels/classica-freewheels-567-speed

The only freewheels I have used in the past 5 years are Shimano and Sunrace 7 speed units. I am not a fan of Shimano freewheels, I do like the Sunrace 7 speeed 13-28 and 13-25 freewheels. The 13-28 has more evenly space gearing; the 13-25's gearing is too close in the low range for the spacing in the high range.

I do have a '76 Nishiki International project hanging on the wall that I haven't started, it currently has a Suntour 14-34 6 speed freewheel, and I have the original a Suntour 14-28 6 speed freewheel. If you were close, I'd happily give the 6 speed freewheels to you; International shipping is a bit pricey.

[Konstantin]

Well I thought I will do a good work so...why not these? http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/wheelsets-rims-hubs/complete-wheels/700c/grand-cru-fixed-gear-wheelset-700c.html

To be honest I did not find anything better or more suitable for my retro bike that could be cheaper. I could sacrifice a bit on the characteristics for a smaller price..but I would never throw a couple of wheels that are too modern and fancy on my herc. I realise that here in Europe we have the bikes but none cares to renovate that's why more retro components are sold by US companies??

well I am doing something like 6 thousand km per year not 15, so I guess that freewheel is too expensive for me. I'll go with a sunrace it's cheap and easy to find

[nfmisso]

Those wheels will NOT accept a multispeed freewheel. They will only accept single speed freewheels or fixed cogs on both side. Referring to the picture, you can see the slightly larger diameter threaded section which is standard right hand threads for the cog or freewheel to screw on to. To the outside is a slightly smaller diameter threaded section which has left hand threads for the lock ring. A multispeed freewheel will not fit over the left hand threads and reach the right hand threads.

Take a look at these Quando hubs: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/hubs.html#retro combine with Sun CR18 rims (available in a wide assortment of sizes including 590) and your favorite spokes (mine are Wheelsmith); and you have some retro-friendly wheels.

With a five speed freewheel, you can get a shorter spacer; and cut down the axle (if required) to get closer to 120mm OLD (122mm for sure, maybe less).

What size wheels (rims) are currently on the bike? Is it worth salvaging the rims? What size tires?

How about some pictures?

[Konstantin]

Hmm really thanks for everything Nigel, I appreciate the help and the useful info. The wheels are (sorry for my language) crap. Basically the whole bike is in a mess. I can upload some pictures but they are not really worth salvaging anything. The wheels as I was said they were taken from an old supermarket-type bike (at least the front one). The back wheel is bended in an irrepairable way from the latest accident the grandpa had with this bike. To be honest ONLY the frame is worth keeping because I love it so much (even though one can find it in the german ebay for 200euros in a lot better condition). This, that you've said changes everything. I can't trust myself to build a wheel I ve done it only twice and I would like to have something better than my own inexperienced wheel-building. I found a rod though, to expand a bit the frame spacing. I have seen a friend doing it I will do it till it reaches 130mm. The frame is CrMo and I have nothing to lose anyway except an old frame in the worst case scenario. Then we can easily talk about 130mm hub wheel that could take a normal cassette. I like that more I think..in this way I can bring new life to the old herc and make it a bit more modern too.

[Konstantin]

well poor bike... it seems I 've got another headache too on top of everything. The old seat binder is bent. And it's not because of some accident or overtightening but its not the original. Although the clumsy mechanic grandpa of mine has managed to keep the seat in place with a random screw and a bolt this has to be changed too. It's rusty and not good. Any ideas on where can someone find these things because all LBS around have been laughing at me and advising to throw the old bike. As for the last part of the frame you can see its condition on the photos. Thanks again!

---

frame end and seat binder of the bike.

[Konstantin]

and here is the same bike from a guy who already renovated it. Well the frame is exactly the same. hercules rennrad

[nfmisso]

The binder bolt is easy - cut it off with a motor tool like a Dremel with a cut-off wheel.

Next, with the seat post removed, file the opening such that there will be 1 to 2 mm opening left when the binder is clamped on the correct sized seat post.

For a binder bolt, get a class 10.9 or 12.9 M6 bolt and nut, and the two spherical washer sets from a V-brake brake pad. Put one spherical washer set on each side of the binder, bolt the whole assembly together. The spherical washer sets remove any bending stress on the bolt.

Regarding spreading the frame - you have to over spread it by quite a bit. Spread, then remove the tool, measure, spread, measure..... On my SR (Tange CrMo plain guage through out) it had to be spread to about 150-160mm to relax to 135mm.

[nfmisso]

And a bit more.

I'd spread to 130mm but limit yourself to seven or eight speed cassette. With a claw mount you loose some tolerance control, especially in the rotation about the axes (plural of axis - I had to look it up ) perpendicular to the axis of the rear axle, which has a major effect on how quiet the RD is and how well it shifts in index mode.

I still recommend the Shimano TX55 with claw for your RD.