YABD - vintage Bernard Carré frame, etc

[Jesper]

(06-12-2024, 05:56 PM)enkei Wrote:  I got bored of the variability in measurement using vernier calipers, so I've ordered a nice classic external micrometer. Wanted some telescopic bore gauges too but even I couldn't justify the cost of a set of Mitutoyos, LOL.

I use an antique set of "reverse" calipers for internal bore and then use a micrometer to measure the distance across the tips. Low cost and still effective since they can go about 3" into the tube. Of course, since I rarely use them they got misplaced.

[enkei]

(06-12-2024, 07:13 PM)Jesper Wrote:  Of course, since I rarely use them they got misplaced.

I properly LOLed at that.

Thanks for reminding me that I already have a few sizes of internal calipers (DOH). Methinks it's time to go through some boxes and organise my tools properly.

[Jesper]

Final consensus on the frame is that it is a pre-'80s frame; full metric tubeset. Seat post should be 26.6mm, but due to manufacturing it might only fit a 26.4mm post which, as others noted, Carré frames were often outfitted with 26.4mm posts. Of course, the post size call is yours to make, and you will be able to best determine its size, but I would ensure the binder slot looks like it is a consistent width from bottom top without showing any signs of closure towards the top.

Another possible year identifying feature is the design of the tubing decal which may have been modified in the '70s. I am not familiar with that Vitus tubing to know when or if the tubing decals were changed.

Edit: link to a very similar Carré frame. Main difference is the crown style (flatter and external lug) and no panto. I suspect fork difference made for lower cost level as the bike was badged for a different brand: "Guillier"; although it does have chrome "socks".
https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_171846377544912&key=2868964305e224e224bff6c81ebe83c5&libId=lxg8964p01000er2000UL7r7wj136&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikeforums.net%2Fclassic-vintage-sales%2F1265818-bernard-carre-frameset-super-vitus-971-59cm.html&ccpaConsent=1YNY&v=1&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fgp%2F194633627%40N02%2F5391fz69WB&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikeforums.net%2Fsearch.php%3Fsearchid%3D17760705%26pp​%3D50%26page%3D3&title=Bernard%20Carr%C3%A9%20Frameset%20%2F%20Super%20Vitus%20971%20%2F%2059​cm%20-%20Bike%20Forums&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fgp%2F194633627%40N02%2F5391fz69WB

[Jesper]

Just thought I would post this for comparison: 1976 Carré built frame for the Abel Borne shop. From what I gather it has all its OE components (Shimano Crane/D-A, Stronglight). Still a Vitus 971 tubed frame but a bit different at the fork crown and stay caps. One intetesting detail is what appears to be a 26.8mm seat post (see photo) which would be correct for the 971 tubing; but anecdotal evidence shows that 26.6mm posts were regularly being used as stock equipment even though Carré made frames for many different marques the bikes tended to be fit with 26.6mm posts versus the correct 26.8mm size. I still cannot determine why there is a difference other than possible deformation during frame building and/or the finishing process that necessitated a smaller diameter post.

From educating myself on this builder and reviewing other examples it has become apparent that Carré competition (as labelled) frames (aside from custom built frames) are much longer in wheelbase than their Italian (et al.) contemporaries. Apparently Carré did not subscribe to the trend of more compact frames being built in the 70s and later. Also, the competition frames were often built with eyelets for fender/rack mounts which were rarely found on most Italian true racing frames. I do understand that the bikes may have been built with a multipurpose design (racing, touring, clubman) but I find that these "long" frames, although of high quality, were probably not often used by serious racers (most likely had custom built Carré frames) due to the handling differences one would experience with a longer wheelbase compared to a more compact frame. I do not know how geometries differed in head and seat tube angles compared to other race frames. I would still take one if the opportunity arose since I feel it would be a nice addition to the fold to have a high quality Carré frame, but I doubt I would ride it like I do my other race bikes due to the frame design; then again I would not realistically know until I get to ride one.