MOSER

[Jesper]

MOSER LEADER SC with Oria tubing                                                    

---

MOSER AELLE '85                                

[Aab]

Beauties!

[Jesper]

(12-02-2019, 03:50 PM)Aab Wrote:  Beauties!

Thank you Aab,

The Leader has been through a couple of builds, now looking to finalize after getting the 80's parts I wanted on it. Campy drivetrain Super/Nuovo Record, Shimamo barcons, LOOK pedals (painted to match, or find the "rainbow" style LOOKs), Modolo Speedy levers (black), Campy Veloce calipers (black), Concor saddle, Mavic Ksyrium limited edition K10 wheelset, 3t Mutant stem (I love that design), and the "bullhorns" bar. Would like to find an aero "quill" style post (in black), but not very common; it was hard enough to find the one I've got and not cheap. Many riders cut a slot in the seat tube and throw on a clamp post binder, but it takes away from the clean look of frame which to me is one of the best early fillet brazed race frames (and still is). Apparently some riders had issues with post slippage, I'm 140 lbs so not a concern.
The poll is for my own curiosity since the paintwork was done very well, using just about every color on the palette, although a little thick with filling some of the frame/fork details (can barely make out the 51.151 on crown). Still in very good condition with a couple minor chips/scratches. Just wanted to get an idea of how people felt about an extreme "rebadge" (all hand painted with some stencil work, but no decals). I'm not trying to fool anyone, I have a couple real Colnagos that look, and ride quite differently; much stiffer rear compared to the Colnagos in my opinion. The paintwork may have been done to satisfy team sponsors, not an uncommon practice for European racers back in the day (cryptic letters in the paint, probably painter or rider initials). My thoughts are to find some Moser decals and cover up the "Colnago" bits, but keeping the paint as is. Also need Oria decals for their shaped tubing variant on this frame.
I've not ridden the "Aelle" frame, but I have an Olmo with that Columbus tubing and it is a good riding frame so I assume the Moser would also. That Moser is keeping its original paint/chrome, just touching up and polishing; full Camp Victory/Triomphe build.     '86 Nuovo Mexico.

Take care,
Jesper

[very hangry]

Mmn brings back memories
Pedalling to high-school with my dad's 80s Colnago Super. It had Campagnolo Nuovo and some mixed components. It's still relaxing in dad's garage, in solid condition, and enjoying occasional rides into the sunset.

[Jesper]

(12-12-2019, 11:14 AM)very hangry Wrote:  Mmn brings back memories
Pedalling to high-school with my dad's 80s Colnago Super. It had Campagnolo Nuovo and some mixed components. It's still relaxing in dad's garage, in solid condition, and enjoying occasional rides into the sunset.

I'd love to see a photo of the "Super". I like to be able to reference different year frames in order to catalog the differences through the years; my "Super" (not pictured) is a '79-'81, and I have yet to see another example of it with the same frame details and decals, thus I'm not restoring it except for the components (keeping them correct to the orig. year/build).

Take care,
Jesper

[Zviedrs]

That Mutant stem looks hooooot! Didn't it get recognition back in the days with some cycling design awards?
If I may ask - how much $ did it cost?

[Jesper]

(12-18-2019, 10:34 AM)Zviedrs Wrote:  That Mutant stem looks hooooot! Didn't it get recognition back in the days with some cycling design awards?
If I may ask - how much $ did it cost?

The Mutant is my favorite "new" stem (90s?). I have had that stem for a couple of years, cost about $40 back then, now about double; very hard to find the quill style (I have 2 more, black and silver). The threadless version are fairly common, but cost about the same now depending on color and length. I have yellow, black, and silver models in threadless design. Cinelli's "Groove" is similar; I'll take a "Mutant" over a "Groove", but either over the highly overpriced "Alter", which I hate the looks of and is not aerodynamic compared to just about every stem out there; nevermind the ridiculous (IMO) "pin-up" girls ($50+ w/o the stem!) cranking the price higher without any gain. I think the "Mutant" makes an old frame look instantly modern. I really don't know if it was praised for its design when first introduced. I'm also fond of the 3t "Evol" and "Status" stems, but the "Mutant" is still my fave. If you're patient, you can get the threadless around $50 in decent condition depending again on size and color. My '80s Nishiki time trial frame will have one soon if my +50 year old back can handle it! On the Moser it gives a nice stretch position while riding the "horns" without being uncomfortable ( for me). I'll post a photo of the Colnago Asso (black frame w/yellow highlights) with the yellow one when I get a chance, but the bike is not at my southern location yet.

[Jesper]

(12-18-2019, 10:34 AM)Zviedrs Wrote:  If I may ask - how much $ did it cost?

Quick note if you're interested; I saw some "NOS" quill and threadless stems for $50 approx., but shipping from Europe at about $25, so still about $80 a pop at velosaloon. Ebay stuff is even higher; last place I'd look except doing a price filtered search $50 and below. I like the stems, but I'm not paying close to $100 for a stem and/or many other parts; if I did, all my bikes would have $1000 or more in them, but have a value 25%-50% less than $1000. I don't mind spending $ to make a nice bike for show and/or ride; but I don't need, both figuratively and/or literally, the "gold-plated" parts.

Take care,
Jesper

[Zviedrs]

Thank you for the top insights, @Jesper. This particular Mutant stem most certainly has spiced up your frame, it instantly caught my eye.

I'm actually located in Europe, so NOS stems sound compelling. Checked out Velosaloon (if you meant velosaloon.com), in fact it's based in Vienna - very convenient for me. I'm aiming to buy fast-vintage-road-commuter bicycle this spring. To get around town and to-from the work. 80s or 90s, steel frame, 2x drivetrain. Not sure if I want to put it together and would prefer getting ready-to-go bike. However I imagine upgrading it with Mutant stem and some special accents.

Could you please throw me couple of tips/pointers for finding good value for money deal? Are there specific sites that you can vouch for or is it about diging into amazon? Any tip appreciated

ps: would love to see 80s Nishiki TT frame that you mentioned

[Jesper]

(12-27-2019, 06:20 PM)Zviedrs Wrote:  Thank you for the top insights, @Jesper. This particular Mutant stem most certainly has spiced up your frame, it instantly caught my eye.

I'm actually located in Europe, so NOS stems sound compelling. Checked out Velosaloon (if you meant velosaloon.com), in fact it's based in Vienna - very convenient for me. I'm aiming to buy fast-vintage-road-commuter bicycle this spring. To get around town and to-from the work. 80s or 90s, steel frame, 2x drivetrain. Not sure if I want to put it together and would prefer getting ready-to-go bike. However I imagine upgrading it with Mutant stem and some special accents.

Could you please throw me couple of tips/pointers for finding good value for money deal? Are there specific sites that you can vouch for or is it about diging into amazon? Any tip appreciated

ps: would love to see 80s Nishiki TT frame that you mentioned

Unfortunately, finding a complete bike "ready to ride" in your size (frame: height/ST, and length/TT, crank and stem lengths), and with components to fit for your needs (gear number and ratios, pedal type, bar type, brakes) is difficult without being able to physically inspect the bike. Many sellers are not familiar with how to measure a frame, use different techniques and do not reference as to how it was done. Easy to change out components, but the wrong frame size even if a decent one may not be comfortable depending on your body and ride style. I have ridden a very large 57cm frame for my height (5'7") for over 30 years even though I normally ride 52cm. I've comfortably ridden 47cm up to 61cm; yes, this is not normal but neither am I. By riding different sizes and geometries I have been able to determine exactly what frames will fit me for my needs be it commuting, touring, or racing. I always inquire as to how frame measurements were performed if I am not able to verify myself. I only use early style LOOK pedals on my bikes (no changing shoes/cleats), even occasionally on the 3 speeds, so I know that pedals will need to be changed when purchasing and I need to figure it into my cost (I have plenty of spare pedals now!). So cost might be prohibitive if you need to, or plan on replacing many components. If there is a "Craigslist" type of website it would allow you to look for local sales (also local estate sales and "second hand shops") that you will be able to inspect and ride. I would love to live in Europe, many really great classic quality rides and parts at decent prices, only the shipping is prohibitive. I often buy frames because of the cost shipping complete bikes, and having received them damaged. I have used B & G Legendary Bikes in Italy to source some frames, they are not cheap, but have fairly decent quality frames of good pedigree. I get a substantial discount on frames and parts which helps. Ebay is certainly an option and could be the best and worst place to shop. Often bike forum sites have a "marketplace", usually good deals by knowledgeable, like-minded sellers.

[Zviedrs]

@Jesper, thanks for the tips!

Interesting to read about frame sizing. For instance, I personally prefer road bike frame to be tad shorter than suggested. If I have to choose between frame 58cm, 59cm or 60cm (for my 6'1" body), I'd shift towards 58cm or even smaller frame. It's just about that feeling. For touring bike I'd go with a larger frame. How's it with you? How do commuting, touring and racing bike sizes differ in your case?

Nishiki Linear ... that's quite something, never seen frame like this in real life! Must be 28" rear and 24" front wheel, right? What are the components? I certainly can see Mutant stem fitting onto this frame; adds modern touch and blends nicely with the black tones (white, black, red color play).

[Jesper]

(01-01-2020, 03:56 PM)Zviedrs Wrote:  @Jesper, thanks for the tips!

Interesting to read about frame sizing. For instance, I personally prefer road bike frame to be tad shorter than suggested. If I have to choose between frame 58cm, 59cm or 60cm (for my 6'1" body), I'd shift towards 58cm or even smaller frame. It's just about that feeling. For touring bike I'd go with a larger frame. How's it with you? How do commuting, touring and racing bike sizes differ in your case?

Nishiki Linear ... that's quite something, never seen frame like this in real life! Must be 28" rear and 24" front wheel, right? What are the components? I certainly can see Mutant stem fitting onto this frame; adds modern touch and blends nicely with the black tones (white, black, red color play).

Basing most of my riding style on racing/fast touring (for my age); I tend to go with slightly larger frames (54cm-58cm ST) in height and length than my optimal frame size (52cm ST/54cm TT). My commuting tends to be criterium/interval style riding so, yes a nice nimble short/compact/stiff frame is most suitable; a lot of sprint style "stop and go"; during which I use the 51.5cm Batavus "Criterium" (Reynolds 501 tubeset) slightly modified for "cross/off-road" with 30mm tires; certainly not set-up for racing/speed, just general training/"multi-use".

I have been "sized" for a bike once; my first brand new bike ('79 Peugeot sport frame) and that was just to make sure I could "stand over" the bike at age 17yrs old. There was no thought and/or concern as to crank or stem length. I rode that bike on a 1500 mile winter tour at age 18 and never thought twice about riding comfort; young body, no injuries (bike related anyways). Now my concern is mostly about length and not height; injured back, shoulders, knees, and ribs affect the frame size and type of riding; time trial (up to 25-30 miles @ +20mph, hopefully!), medium distance fast (15 to 30 miles @ +18mph), or long distance moderate speed (30 miles @ 15-18mph). After doing 30mi/50Km on the "Linear" a couple weeks ago, my whole back felt sore, but doing 15mi/25Km on the same frame riding hard feels just fine. I'm regularly being told that I ride too large of a frame, but after riding big frames for the last 35 years; the "small frames" (actually my size) feel a little odd. That could be due to the smaller frames having inherently more stiffness due to shorter tubing and a overall lower frame weight, and center of gravity.

I "train" on a 51.5cm "sport criterium" frame (my size), but "race" (informally/unsanctioned) on frames 54-55cm and larger. Probably because my better bikes are bigger frames with better performing components. The last time I "raced" was on a 54cm x 54cm aluminum ALAN/Tommaso frame; a job that could not be handled by the smaller/"better fitting" Batavus frame.
Sizing is such a personal issue, 2 people can have the same build, inseam, and reach; but each might feel more comfortable on frames of significantly different size/geometry used for the same purpose. When I was touring in my younger days I had a substantial load on my back so being too upright was worse than being too stretched out when doing over 100mi/160Km. Now being that my rides are shorter and I rarely ride with a pack on my back I am not concerned as much about "riding position" unless seriously training/racing in order to have a more aerodynamic position. The nice thing about the "Linear" is that you get used to keeping a lower position (you don't have much choice), and then when I get on my other regular frames, being in the drops isn't as uncomfortable. Having bikes that I ride with frames from 47cm-61cm, height never really affects me that much as I'm not getting on and off the bike very much; the top tube and stem length are my biggest factors regardless of height. The most uncomfortable I have felt was on a 43 cm sized Quintana Roo frame (time trial/tri bike) due to the top tube length, not the height. I have a "junior" racer from the '50s with a 46cm seat tube, but a 56cm top tube; this is no problem to ride given that I can stretch out enough with that size top tube; easy enough to go with slightly longer cranks (175-180 vice 170-172.5) and lift the saddle to adjust for height if your weight isn't too far forward (which is what it feels like on the Nishiki). Right now I feel a little "cramped" on the Nishiki even with the 58cm size, my reach still feels too long for the frame when I'm riding the horns; it has a 60mm stem, getting changed to a 110mm "Mutant" (adding 2") and should feel about the right reach (might go 90mm if too long, but no "Mutant" in that size).

I just bought another "Mutant" quill (used/ebay) for $35 in great condition; a great savings for me. If the Velosaloon site gives good shipping to your region, getting a reasonable price through them should not be too bad; maybe get you "NOS" around $60/65 Euro. I picked up a couple of frames from them recently so I was able to get a stem without added shipping. They had a nice Panasonic TT "funny" bike frame for sale (700c/26" I believe), a little pricey for me with shipping added, but still a great frame. They have some decent Gazelles in larger frame sizes, as well as some French/Vitus and Italian frames.

Putting the Moser "Leader" on the road (again) next weekend, should be interesting with the new set-up, first time riding with the "new" bar, stem, barcons, and brakes. I'm contemplating putting a 26" on the front just for "laughs"; see how it feels (it would look great, I think).

Take care,
Jesper